WEBVTT
00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:02.108
This is a Renew Original Recording.
00:00:02.108 --> 00:00:08.585
Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery and stigma.
00:00:08.585 --> 00:00:10.992
Today's episode is a little different.
00:00:10.992 --> 00:00:16.625
While I'm usually your host, or, as I like to say, your facilitator, today I'm stepping into the role of a guest.
00:00:16.625 --> 00:00:24.731
My name is Matthew Butler and I'm thrilled to join the Transatlantic Conversation alongside two incredible facilitators Amy Goldberg and Caitlin Morrison.
00:00:24.731 --> 00:00:33.189
Amy is the host of the American Believing People podcast, a show that dives deep into the personal stories of resilience, the power of human connection and the belief in positive change.
00:00:33.189 --> 00:00:44.765
Caitlin Morrison, our other facilitator today, is the sister of Matthew Perry and director of the Matthew Perry Foundation, an organisation dedicated to supporting those on their recovery journeys and breaking down stigma surrounding addiction.
00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:51.155
For those unfamiliar, matthew Perry was a celebrated actor, best known for his role as Chandler Bing on the iconic sitcom Friends.
00:00:51.155 --> 00:00:56.747
While his comedic timing and charm made him a household name, his off-screen life revealed a deeper story.
00:00:56.747 --> 00:01:02.406
Matthew Perry struggled openly with addiction to prescription drugs and alcohol, becoming a powerful advocate for recovery.
00:01:02.406 --> 00:01:11.481
In 2022, he published his memoir Friends, lovers and the Big Terrible Thing, where he candidly shared his journey through fame, addiction and hope.
00:01:11.481 --> 00:01:18.807
Tragically, he passed away in October 2023 at the age of 54, leaving behind a legacy of advocacy and resilience.
00:01:18.807 --> 00:01:28.569
The Matthew Perry Foundation, led by his sister Caitlin, continues his mission by providing resources, creating safe spaces and promoting recovery for individuals worldwide.
00:01:29.230 --> 00:01:34.412
This episode is part of an exciting collaboration between our two podcasts, and today we're doing something a little special.
00:01:34.412 --> 00:01:42.608
What you're about to hear is an episode of the American Believing People podcast, shared for our UK channel, so subscribers can hear it at the same time as their listeners in America.
00:01:42.608 --> 00:01:46.769
It's a true simulcast released simultaneously on both platforms.
00:01:46.769 --> 00:01:54.147
This collaboration highlights how shared values and common goals can unite people across borders to spark meaningful conversations that drive change.
00:01:54.147 --> 00:02:04.331
Links to both the Believe in People American podcast and information about the Matthew Perry Foundation are included in this episode description, and we strongly encourage you to explore their show and visit their website for more details.
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:09.781
Matt has dedicated over nine years to supporting individuals in the substance misuse field.
00:02:10.002 --> 00:02:26.852
His mission is powerful to break down the stigma of addiction matt now challenges misconceptions like why not just stop or why continue if you want to quit, as he advocates for meaningful change his belief is clear and inspiring.
00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:30.087
Real transformation starts when we believe in people.
00:02:30.087 --> 00:02:31.230
Welcome.
00:02:31.230 --> 00:02:33.388
My co-host is Caitlin Morrison.
00:02:33.388 --> 00:02:44.372
Caitlin is the executive director of the Matthew Perry Foundation, where she is carrying on the wishes of her brother, Matthew Perry, to help others struggling with the disease of addiction.
00:02:44.372 --> 00:02:46.006
Welcome, Caitlin.
00:02:48.140 --> 00:02:49.183
Thank you so very much.
00:02:49.183 --> 00:02:51.090
I'm very happy to be doing this with you.
00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.668
Yeah, caitlin and I get to ask Matt a ton of different questions.
00:02:54.668 --> 00:02:57.522
So, matt Butler, welcome to Bleeding People.
00:02:58.425 --> 00:02:59.688
Well, thank you so much for having me.
00:02:59.688 --> 00:03:05.110
It's nice to be in the interviewee spot today as opposed to the interviewer.
00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:05.832
So lovely experience.
00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:07.945
Exactly so for those who do not know.
00:03:07.945 --> 00:03:09.150
Thank you, viewers and listeners.
00:03:09.150 --> 00:03:19.105
Matt has a very successful podcast in the UK and, wonderfully, it is also Believe in People and it focuses on recovery and addiction.
00:03:19.105 --> 00:03:20.710
Did I say that right, matt?
00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.008
Absolutely yeah, yeah, yeah, that's spot on that, yeah.
00:03:23.539 --> 00:03:24.966
So let's start with that.
00:03:24.966 --> 00:03:26.581
What sparked that?
00:03:28.526 --> 00:03:30.408
I think for me it was a case of.
00:03:30.408 --> 00:03:41.425
I started working in substance misuse services nearly 10 years ago and I think, like a lot of people, I didn't have that understand of what addiction was until I started working here.
00:03:41.425 --> 00:03:50.701
I started working here as an administrator, so it wasn't necessarily too recovery focused, I was just helping out on the phones, sending some emails, quite generic admin tasks.
00:03:50.701 --> 00:04:01.683
But once I got talking to the people that use the service and I started to hear their stories of addiction and I think for a lot of people they believe that addiction is a choice or it is a lack of willpower.
00:04:01.683 --> 00:04:04.651
And I think hearing the stories you start to learn that.
00:04:04.651 --> 00:04:14.772
And my mind was just blown, I suppose, in hearing these stories of resilience and hearing about what people had gone through and it changed my perception.
00:04:14.772 --> 00:04:17.927
And of course it changed my perception because I'm working in this service.
00:04:17.927 --> 00:04:30.737
The idea of the podcast was that I wanted to change more people's perception to what it is and it was about sharing these stories in a way that some people within addiction weren't getting the opportunity to share.
00:04:30.737 --> 00:04:37.122
Walking past a homeless person on the street, I don't think people really look at them and think I wonder how that happened.
00:04:37.122 --> 00:04:44.129
Instead, they kind of just walk past it as a casualty of society and it can be quite disregarding of the circumstances that led them there.
00:04:44.129 --> 00:05:00.072
And I just had this idea of what if we just created something where people could share those stories, where people could talk about their experiences, what they'd been through, how they did it and hopefully inspire others to maybe overcome their addiction as well.
00:05:00.072 --> 00:05:01.766
And that was really the motivation for it.
00:05:01.766 --> 00:05:05.089
I don't think I expected it to be as well received as it was.
00:05:05.089 --> 00:05:19.447
I think, based on the topic, I'd have been happy if 20 people listened to it, but to see the numbers of people listening just absolutely blew me away and it gave me the motivation to speak with more and more people from diverse backgrounds as well.
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:35.759
So not just locally here in my city in Kingston up on Hull here in Yorkshire in the UK, but to speak to everyone across the UK, because the interesting thing about the landscape here in the UK is that if you live in Hull, you could have a very different experience.
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:43.826
As someone who lives in Leeds, which is only an hour away, I think you could probably fit the entirety of the UK into Texas about four times over.
00:05:43.826 --> 00:05:44.548
Do you know what I mean.
00:05:44.548 --> 00:05:51.293
It's a small place, but it's very different from county to county.
00:05:51.293 --> 00:05:55.848
And you know, some people will say to me oh, I've got a friend in London, have you ever met them?
00:05:55.848 --> 00:05:58.988
I'm like no, you know, there's millions of people that live in the UK.
00:05:58.988 --> 00:06:08.795
No, I've never met them, but the idea being that everyone has these different stories and different experiences, and I wanted to share as many of them as possible as a way to inspire others.
00:06:11.802 --> 00:06:13.569
I love that that's what you're doing.
00:06:13.569 --> 00:06:21.774
It's I mean, it's remarkable, I think, the power that those stories have in changing people's minds.
00:06:21.774 --> 00:06:25.550
Are you finding that you are noticing it's working?
00:06:25.550 --> 00:06:26.112
Have you been?
00:06:26.112 --> 00:06:29.307
Have you, have you seen evidence of that?
00:06:29.307 --> 00:06:30.329
Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:30.670 --> 00:06:37.189
I think the the interesting thing about seeing the the changes is is hearing how it has inspired people.
00:06:37.189 --> 00:06:55.149
I think there's almost like a stereotypical view of what a fellowship meeting looks like for people who attend the rooms of a and n, and it isn't what you always see in TV and movies and the idea of it being a certain way and, I think, people sharing their stories of their experiences, what those rooms was like and how welcoming they was.
00:06:55.149 --> 00:06:57.723
And a guy shared a story about his first time there.
00:06:57.723 --> 00:07:08.980
He was greeted with a hug and someone took him in and made him a cup of tea and he said he never felt so welcome somewhere and how that short story there inspired so many people to go to their first NA meeting or their first AA meeting.
00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:12.427
So even seeing that as the evidence, was interesting.
00:07:12.427 --> 00:07:25.613
I think other parts that we didn't expect to see was we've had students from local universities listening to the podcast and have asked if they could use quotes from it or if they could use the resource as part of their thesis or their dissertation.
00:07:25.613 --> 00:07:34.206
So that's been an interesting thing that we didn't expect to happen as well, like the educational standpoint and the educational view that what we're doing can have.
00:07:34.206 --> 00:07:37.689
But, yeah, talking to people and hearing how it's inspired them.
00:07:37.689 --> 00:07:57.050
In Hull, we hosted the National Recovery Walk in 2023, and that was a big deal because it's a traveling thing that happens across the uk and we had 3 000 people come to our city and all to celebrate recovery and to basically show this is what recovery looks like.
00:07:57.050 --> 00:08:15.853
This is visible recovery and we do recover, and the amount of people that came up and spoke to me on that walk to talk about how it had helped them as a resource was something that we didn't expect to hear and that was absolutely mind blowing as well to see that evidence of wow, this is a resource that is really helping people.
00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:22.666
And I think the interesting thing is I don't have addiction myself, so I can put myself in that view of when I talk about educating the public.
00:08:22.666 --> 00:08:32.568
I can put myself in to that position of the public and I'll ask questions that I know the answers to based on the work that I do, alcohol addiction being an example.
00:08:32.568 --> 00:08:38.350
You know, I think one of the things that my dad said to me before was why don't people just stop drinking then if they don't want to drink?
00:08:38.350 --> 00:08:47.652
And I'm like gee, dad, you know, I wonder if they've ever thought of that, but I can put myself in that position Sounds insane.
00:08:47.652 --> 00:08:52.076
Why did you keep on drinking when you knew that you wanted to stop?
00:08:52.076 --> 00:09:03.557
I know the answers to that most of the time, but I put myself in that position of the public who maybe don't know and therefore they can communicate and they can give them answers themselves.
00:09:03.908 --> 00:09:05.184
It's almost like a human library.
00:09:05.184 --> 00:09:43.662
You bring someone in and it's like a book where you can really talk to them and ask them questions and let them really tell their story of what it is like, of what the addiction was really like and the real, I suppose, the reality of withdrawal as well, which withdrawal they saw like a monster coming out of the wall when they was experiencing alcohol withdrawal because the hallucinations that they was experiencing in that process To me, you know, it's absolutely mental and even that, someone with experience, to hear those stories, I'm still interested and intrigued by it.
00:09:43.662 --> 00:09:53.572
So for someone without that knowledge of alcohol addiction or addiction or withdrawal to hear those stories as well is really educational and eye-opening to what people are actually going through.
00:09:54.745 --> 00:09:55.827
So hey, matt, so what about?
00:09:55.827 --> 00:09:59.426
So the organization that you're involved with, renew the Change Grow Live.
00:09:59.426 --> 00:10:00.489
Did that come?
00:10:00.489 --> 00:10:00.769
So?
00:10:00.769 --> 00:10:03.056
I know that the Believe in People came out of that.
00:10:03.056 --> 00:10:11.335
But is there a collaborative tell us about Renew and is there the collaboration where you're sort of lending the stories to Renew as well?
00:10:11.335 --> 00:10:12.846
I mean, how does that kind of work?
00:10:13.048 --> 00:10:20.014
Yeah, so Change Grow Live is the national organization and Renew is a local service that is provided by the organization.
00:10:20.014 --> 00:10:26.316
To give an overview, the way that it works is that the local councils will commission a service rather than them providing that service themselves.
00:10:26.316 --> 00:10:30.631
They will go out and an organization will come and they will provide through a tender process.
00:10:30.631 --> 00:10:33.135
Basically they will provide that contract.
00:10:33.135 --> 00:10:40.115
So here in hull it's called renew, so we're part of change grow live, but that doesn't mean anything to the people who are in addiction.
00:10:40.115 --> 00:10:41.586
Do you know the idea?
00:10:41.586 --> 00:10:45.937
I suppose the idea of renew came around is so we're just coming up for contract now.
00:10:45.937 --> 00:10:48.553
Now these contracts can be updated every five years.
00:10:48.553 --> 00:10:49.376
I think.
00:10:49.397 --> 00:10:55.121
Think the local Hull City Council here had gone through numerous contracts going to different organisations.
00:10:55.121 --> 00:11:09.832
I think there was something called Compass and there was Journey to Recovery and then there was the Drug Intervention Programme, now substance misuse if you're someone in addiction, you can be in that addiction for a long time and I think it got confusing going from oh I'm with this provider, I'm with this provider.
00:11:09.832 --> 00:11:16.611
So the idea of renew now is that it doesn't matter if Change Go Live have the contract, if an organization called Foe Trust has the contract.
00:11:16.611 --> 00:11:20.351
If With you has the contract, it doesn't matter what organization has it.
00:11:20.351 --> 00:11:24.676
This service in whole now will always be called renew, because that's what works for the local residents.
00:11:25.365 --> 00:11:26.907
So explain what does the contract mean?
00:11:26.907 --> 00:11:28.048
What does that mean?
00:11:28.469 --> 00:11:39.581
So the contract is that the Hull City Council will pay X amount of money let's say it's £1 million to Change Grow Live to provide X amount of staff members to help the local community.
00:11:39.581 --> 00:11:48.615
Now the reason why these contracts are mainly done on a four to five year basis is because if it's not working after four to five years you can bring in another organisation that may be able to do a better job.
00:11:48.615 --> 00:11:59.996
I think what we're seeing in Hull is that Change Grow Live have been doing a very good job helping the local people here with substance misuse problems, that they're continuing to use Change Grow Live as an organisation to do that.
00:11:59.996 --> 00:12:04.936
So Renew is just a name for the local service that Change Grow Live provides.
00:12:04.936 --> 00:12:06.326
It does get a bit confusing.
00:12:06.326 --> 00:12:06.605
I think.
00:12:06.605 --> 00:12:09.828
Even working here as long as I have, I still get a little bit confused by it.
00:12:09.828 --> 00:12:13.052
At the end of the day I come to work and I do my job and that's enough for me.
00:12:13.572 --> 00:12:20.038
But with that, with the podcast, change Grow Live's identity and their mantra is believe in people.
00:12:20.038 --> 00:12:33.613
So the idea that we took from that was that has to be the ethos If you work for this service, if you work for this organization, you have to believe that people can change.
00:12:33.613 --> 00:12:37.164
And it can be exhausting working with people in addiction because we know that they will lie and we know that they will manipulate.
00:12:37.164 --> 00:12:49.107
And for me it doesn't excuse the behavior, but it explains that behavior is something that I always say and it's almost like that's their culture, that's what they've had to do for so long that it becomes a natural part of what they're doing.
00:12:49.107 --> 00:12:50.510
It's almost just survival for them.
00:12:50.510 --> 00:13:01.066
But the idea for me is, even when I experienced that as often as I do, if I don't believe that people can change, if I don't believe that people can get well, then I'm in the wrong job.
00:13:01.066 --> 00:13:04.655
I will always believe in everyone that walks through that door, no matter where they are.
00:13:04.655 --> 00:13:06.227
I've seen people on death's door.
00:13:06.227 --> 00:13:14.695
I remember delivering a methadone prescription to a local pharmacy and there was a lad in there that looked like he was a week away from death.
00:13:14.695 --> 00:13:19.470
Funny enough, that same lad became a volunteer of mine a couple of years later.
00:13:19.470 --> 00:13:30.765
Then he became a paid staff member and now he's a manager within the Hep C Trust and that's a local organization that does hepatitis C screening, educates and treats hepatitis.
00:13:30.765 --> 00:13:33.788
And even then, when I saw him on Death's Door.
00:13:33.788 --> 00:13:40.756
There was still part of me that naturally believes you're going to get through this, you're going to change and you have to have that to work in these services.
00:13:40.756 --> 00:13:42.619
If you don't, it's the wrong service.
00:13:42.619 --> 00:13:53.609
You have to believe that people can change and that was the idea and that's where the name for this podcast came from is that you have to believe in people, no matter where they are, and I think that's what we see.
00:13:54.129 --> 00:13:58.850
The podcast is often structured in a way where at the beginning we talk about those early beginnings.
00:13:58.850 --> 00:14:02.388
We talk about their introduction to substances when they first started using drugs.
00:14:02.388 --> 00:14:04.533
We talk about their rock bottom moments.
00:14:04.533 --> 00:14:13.316
We talk about what was the catalyst for change and then we talk about what they're doing now and how they're living a sober life and how their life is better for it.
00:14:13.316 --> 00:14:29.666
So in that hour to 90 minutes podcast that we provide, it's a conversation there that we see someone go from where they was in the depths of despair, on death's door sometimes, to coming out the other end of it and naturally, hopefully by the end of it.
00:14:29.666 --> 00:14:34.091
That it challenges that stigma of addiction that addicts will all be addicts.
00:14:34.091 --> 00:14:50.904
You know that people can change and they do and they will recover, and that was the the ethos of the podcast and where the name came from as well it's so amazing that you're showing people that that you have that sort of faith and hope and belief that they're going to get through it.
00:14:50.845 --> 00:14:51.904
I also really like that you have that sort of faith and hope and belief that they're going to get through it.
00:14:51.904 --> 00:15:02.493
I also really like that you're focusing on each person, sort of not even just believe in people, believe in each person and I see that too when.
00:15:02.493 --> 00:15:04.417
I look at you, know, change, grow Live.
00:15:04.417 --> 00:15:09.552
And they say everyone's journey is different and we'll figure out something that works for you.
00:15:09.572 --> 00:15:14.820
Can you talk a little bit about how the work that you're doing is showing.
00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:23.491
That is, demonstrating how each person's journey is going to be a little bit different, and that's maybe okay.
00:15:24.333 --> 00:15:25.035
Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:25.035 --> 00:15:29.705
I think you have to understand that they're always, I mean even during the podcast series.
00:15:29.705 --> 00:15:35.274
I think I will see with people that I speak to, I can often pick similarities in their stories.
00:15:35.274 --> 00:15:38.248
And a guy said to me before on the podcast.
00:15:38.248 --> 00:15:40.799
He said, well, my story is like much like everybody else's.
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:46.417
And it was a point that he made where I went all right, and at first I was like well, don't ruin the podcast, you know not.
00:15:46.417 --> 00:15:48.068
Not every episode's the same here, do you?
00:15:48.068 --> 00:15:48.389
You know?
00:15:48.389 --> 00:15:50.335
So every story is different.
00:15:50.335 --> 00:15:56.113
Yes, there are similarities, but every story is different and it could be that their circumstances are different.
00:15:56.164 --> 00:16:05.373
You could have someone who's maybe coming in and they've got a young child, or someone that's coming in and their addiction's having an effect or an impact on their wife or their husband.
00:16:05.373 --> 00:16:19.647
Everyone's coming in with a different background, a different story, and I think that is the ethos really, and we can't provide a service of treatment where it's a one-size-fits-all in the sense of you come in, you're giving your method on script, these are the programs that you're going to do and you're going to go out the other door.
00:16:19.647 --> 00:16:23.375
Because I understand that group work for some people just doesn't work.
00:16:23.375 --> 00:16:24.988
I don't think I'd do well in a group.
00:16:24.988 --> 00:16:31.342
I'm quite a private person, so I don't think I'd like to um share too much about myself in a group setting.
00:16:31.342 --> 00:16:36.905
Now I'd like to think if I was in service, I wouldn't be expected to have to participate in groups in fact, I know I wouldn't.
00:16:36.905 --> 00:16:39.395
I'd be able to do that same work, but in a one-to-one setting.
00:16:39.977 --> 00:16:46.726
I remember doing cbt therapy in 2016 and I went in and the doctor said, oh, I've got my trainee assistant, you don't mind if they're sitting on the appointment day.
00:16:46.726 --> 00:16:48.230
And at first I went, yeah, yeah, that's fine.
00:16:48.230 --> 00:16:48.870
And then I sat there.
00:16:48.870 --> 00:16:49.652
But actually you know what?
00:16:49.652 --> 00:16:50.494
No, I do mind.
00:16:50.494 --> 00:16:53.438
I was like I would like to do this one and he was like oh, oh, okay, do you know?
00:16:53.438 --> 00:16:55.109
And for me, that's what I needed.
00:16:55.109 --> 00:17:03.375
So the idea that I think I understand what it's like to be in that chair opposite a professional and trying to seek help for something.
00:17:03.416 --> 00:17:10.477
For me it was crippling anxiety, you know, just not really being able to almost function on a day-to-day basis.
00:17:10.477 --> 00:17:14.442
You know, because of the anxiety, getting on a bus was a task for me.
00:17:14.442 --> 00:17:14.924
Do you know what I mean?
00:17:14.924 --> 00:17:24.071
So I know what it's like to be needing help and I think putting myself in the position that I'm in as a professional is I know how I'd like to be treated.
00:17:24.071 --> 00:17:28.615
I've got family my cousin actually opiate addiction has been in service.
00:17:28.615 --> 00:17:32.970
I know how I'd like my family to be trapped.
00:17:32.970 --> 00:17:36.684
So I think that's really the the be all and end of it all is treat people how you'd like to be treated.
00:17:36.684 --> 00:17:42.833
Make sure this service is good enough, like something we often ask ourselves is would you recommend this service to your family?
00:17:42.833 --> 00:17:45.025
There's been times when it has been hard, it has been difficult.
00:17:45.025 --> 00:17:45.705
I thought you know what?
00:17:45.705 --> 00:17:46.287
No, I wouldn't.
00:17:46.287 --> 00:17:48.390
And then there's other times I was like, yeah, absolutely.
00:17:48.390 --> 00:17:54.038
We don't always get it right, but we try our best to get it right is what I'd say yeah, so just making sure.
00:17:54.057 --> 00:18:05.636
Oh sorry, matt, go ahead please no, just just making sure that the service is is fit for for individuals is what I'm saying that it isn't a again, it isn't a one-size-fits-all yeah, because I want to ask you.
00:18:05.656 --> 00:18:09.109
So what does your day to your personal day-to-day look like in the work that you're doing?
00:18:10.071 --> 00:18:14.578
So my job isn't podcasting, this is just an additional part of my job.
00:18:14.578 --> 00:18:22.249
I'm actually the volunteer lead, so I get to work with people who have gone through addiction and now they want to give back to support their community.
00:18:22.249 --> 00:18:25.297
So I deliver training around drug awareness, alcohol awareness.
00:18:25.297 --> 00:18:28.530
We talk about boundaries professional boundaries.
00:18:28.530 --> 00:18:38.856
We do safeguarding how do we protect vulnerable adults and children and that's a big part of my job is supporting individuals to then support other individuals and seeing the value in that.
00:18:38.856 --> 00:18:43.055
I think one thing that I sometimes hear is only an addict can help another addict.
00:18:43.055 --> 00:18:44.057
I don't believe in that.
00:18:44.057 --> 00:18:45.130
I think there is value in it.
00:18:45.130 --> 00:18:59.859
I know that I have helped many people without being an addict myself and many of my colleagues have as well, but there's definitely the value in having someone with lived experience sit and speak to someone and be able to really relate to what they're going through.
00:18:59.859 --> 00:19:01.244
Who has been in the exact position of a similar position.
00:19:01.726 --> 00:19:04.973
Right, matt, it's kind of like the sponsor, yeah yeah, yeah, can't.
00:19:05.013 --> 00:19:13.519
Yeah, kind of like a spot I used to say the difference with sponsors was that there was a time when my understanding of sponsors there was contacted 24 hours a day.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:16.855
It was a seven days a week, 365 days a week commitment.
00:19:16.855 --> 00:19:26.530
But now even some of the sponsors in the rooms are like putting personal boundaries in place to say, look, I'm here to help you, but you can't contact me after 8pm, so even that sort of thing.
00:19:26.530 --> 00:19:27.534
But that is exactly it.
00:19:27.534 --> 00:19:29.549
Really, it's the idea of sponsoring someone.
00:19:29.549 --> 00:19:41.369
So what we'll do is we'll set smart goals for people, you know, small, manageable goals that they can achieve on that, maybe week by week basis, uh, sharing their experiences, but not in a way that makes it all about them, because even that something is.
00:19:41.369 --> 00:19:48.685
I guess what they've got to understand is, look, sometimes just talking about your problems doesn't help, or where you've been doesn't help other people.
00:19:48.685 --> 00:19:49.828
I think it's.
00:19:49.828 --> 00:19:54.428
You know, if I went somewhere and it was like, yeah, I know exactly what you mean, I started talking about them, I'd just be like, all right, yeah, do you know?
00:19:54.428 --> 00:19:56.192
It's not about you, do you know?
00:19:56.192 --> 00:20:01.238
So there's, there's even a way that you, there's a way to share that lived experience and even teaching.
00:20:01.238 --> 00:20:10.175
That can be quite difficult really is to look whilst you will get something out of this for your own recovery and helping others, you've got to make sure that it's not about you.
00:20:10.175 --> 00:20:12.799
You've got to drip feed your information through.
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:27.605
Only I call it, um, the pipe bomb sort of thing, like for some people they don't even disclose they're in recovery and they look really well, and then someone's developed a relationship with them, a professional relationship that is, and then you know, three months in they might say something about their own recovery, like what you're in recovery.
00:20:27.605 --> 00:20:28.366
It's like, yeah, do you know?
00:20:28.366 --> 00:20:31.452
Because now it's useful, now it's a good time to let them know.
00:20:31.452 --> 00:20:37.954
It isn't always a case of just coming into a room saying, yep, I'm in recovery too, so I know exactly what you've gone through, and then making it all about them.
00:20:37.954 --> 00:20:41.071
There's a way in which you need to do that professionally.
00:20:41.071 --> 00:20:45.847
So, yeah, peer support is is my specialty really in this service.
00:20:45.847 --> 00:20:46.450
And how do we?
00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:47.751
How do we help people?
00:20:47.751 --> 00:20:49.414
By sharing our own experiences.
00:20:49.535 --> 00:20:52.926
And another little metaphor I use is the box.
00:20:52.926 --> 00:20:56.209
Have you ever bought something and you take out the box, but then you don't need it, so you go to return it.
00:20:56.209 --> 00:21:02.605
But somehow the way they manufactured it to get it in that box is really clever, and now you can't get the pieces back in that box in the same way, so it's really difficult.
00:21:02.605 --> 00:21:04.866
And I said that's kind of what it's like.
00:21:04.866 --> 00:21:09.009
It's it's about once you take something out the box, it's you can't always put it back in.
00:21:09.009 --> 00:21:09.851
So be careful.
00:21:09.871 --> 00:21:11.011
What you do share as well.
00:21:11.011 --> 00:21:13.874
Because I remember an example.
00:21:13.874 --> 00:21:17.857
I went to my local it sounds really British my local fish and chip shop.
00:21:17.857 --> 00:21:21.500
I was near there and one of our service users was like I didn't know you live around here.
00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:23.442
I was like I don't and I had to keep quiet.
00:21:23.442 --> 00:21:26.307
I was like, no, I used to live around here when I was a kid.
00:21:26.307 --> 00:21:36.525
But like this, chibis, I've come up this because I didn't want them to know I live nearby because obviously that can affect my professional relationship and the last thing I want is someone knocking on my door at 2 am in the morning saying matt, I need help, and it's like, oh, do you know?
00:21:36.525 --> 00:21:40.673
So, even having holes, a very small city.
00:21:40.713 --> 00:21:42.557
I often joke and say everyone knows everyone.
00:21:42.557 --> 00:21:43.019
They don't.
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:46.711
But it's often found like a mutual friend, um, the producer of the podcast.
00:21:46.711 --> 00:21:50.517
Robbie, when we first met, turns out, we had some childhood friends there and we never met before.
00:21:50.517 --> 00:21:53.141
We had some similar childhood friends from our teenage years.
00:21:53.141 --> 00:21:55.925
So there's always people know people.
