Transcript
WEBVTT
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This is a Renew Original Recording.
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Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery and stigma.
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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host or, as Alex say, your facilitator.
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Today we have the second of a special two-part episode and we're joined by our guest, Sarah Hicks.
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In the second part of our conversation with Sarah, we continue her extraordinary journey of survival and advocacy.
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Sarah reflects on the long-term psychological impact of trauma and how her journey for recovery and resilience has fuelled her passion for advocacy.
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As a co-chair for the Violence Against Women and Girls Advisory Group and a lived experience coordinator, Sarah now uses her voice to drive systemic change and empower others.
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I begin part two with Sarah bravely discussing the most harrowing experiences of her life a brutal sexual assault and the subsequent challenges she faced navigating the legal and support systems of being raped.
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So I appreciate how hard of a topic this will be to talk about just in your own time, really.
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Yeah, so I used to be an actor.
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So I went to uni in 2013.
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So I'd gone to an acting class at Hull Truck Theatre an adult one and within six months, I'd done some performances at do you remember Fruit which?
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is now Social.
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And then I'd kind of like done this play and it was a big monologue, it was 20 minute monologue and I'd kind of took it around different places, around hull and stuff, and this guy I was kind of close to at the time, just a friend, he said, why don't you do the drama degree?
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And I thought, right, and like my cousin and my friend who I was talking about earlier, done the social work degree.
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We're going that year as well.
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So last minute scrambled to apply to go, so yeah, so throughout them years I was like trying to act and stuff and be a single parent and obviously be back in a relationship with Christina's thingy and whatever.
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So yeah, so anyway, um 2016, you know, I said I left, I left the relationship and whatnot and I was really making a go of my acting and it was city culture year.
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So I was just, I was doing stuff from a place called Humber Film at Cardoma and I was kind of part of the Humber Film team and I rented a desk there and a beautiful, beautiful man who sadly passed away not so long back, mal Scott.
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He owned Cardoma and yeah, I was around some really great people.
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Mal took me under his wing, a guy called Phil at Humber Films took me under his wing and we just was doing so much stuff.
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I was still drinking, but some really, really beautiful things were happening and I'd been in some short films.
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I'd just got a part in a feature film, I was just about to produce a film, which I ended up going on to Amazon and all this stuff.
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So life was looking up a bit.
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Like I say, the drinking was still there, but things were starting to look up.
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I was going through family court because obviously I'd stopped, you know.
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But then I was going through family court and kafkas decided it wasn't safe for my daughter to to see her dad.
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Um, so it was just me and her and things were.
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They were looking up and then one night, me and my friend who I spoke about, who did the social work degree and stuff her name's Katie I don't know why I say her name Me she was going through a bit of a tough time because she was like doing her.
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I think she was doing her.
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Yeah, she was doing her master's because we'd graduated in 2016 and she went on to do her master's.
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She's so clever, she's like literally one of the most brainiest people you'll ever meet, but she was finding it really tough.
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So there was a night on Adelphi, so we decided to go there and I had knee-length denim shorts, on my big red Jeremy Corbyn T-shirt because it was just after the 2017 general election and my Doc Martin boots, and we go out just like you know, and my friend was really drunk and thought I thought, oh, we need, we need to go now.
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Um, because it was usually it was usually me in in a bit of a mess, um, so we walked and we walked onto beverly road and um was trying to flag a taxi down because I'd booked a taxi from adelphi but I think it had left.
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You know, we didn't get outside in time.
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So we walked onto Beverley Road and trying to flag a taxi down and then I vaguely remember something happening and my friend kind of walking off because something had happened.
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It was like a bit of an altercation of words because something had happened.
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It was like a bit of an altercation of words.
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And then the next thing I remember was vaguely, vaguely, vaguely being in a car.
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And then the next thing I remembered was being in my friend Johnny and Charlotte's student accommodation and I was waking up and I just thought like what's going on?
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And previously, after my dad had died, I had been found unconscious through alcohol in the street.
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So I thought the same had happened and they'd rang the police and I panicked because I thought I'm going through family court.
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What if somebody finds out I've drank, I've knocked myself out.
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I've been an idiot again Because I was this big ball of constant shame.
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I already felt disgusting.
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So every time I drank too much and did something embarrassing which I did a lot I just felt like this, just added to it as well.
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Massively, like that was a big thing.
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With my drinking and using was.
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I always embarrassed myself.
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I did something embarrassing and I don't care what anybody says, it is worse for a woman If you see a man in a pub and the drunk, oh the drunk.
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If a woman's doing it.
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Look at the state of air and and it was just I'd, yeah, I'd just get like people speaking about me and and it was the way I felt about myself.
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So obviously in that moment I just felt like this big embarrassment again.
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I've let my daughter down, I've let everybody down, I've, you know, I've got out my head again and been found.
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And then I like kind of like stayed over at their house and like my friend was trying to get in touch with me and she was like I came back to look for you, like where did you go?
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Blah, blah, blah, and my bag had been stolen, um, and stuff.
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And and my friend john, he went back and he found my phone and my e-cig, but no money, no bag, no, nothing.
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And I remember the police come in and I just said, oh, I've just fell, I've just banged my head, and it was actually a woman.
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I knew who I used to go running training with when I was a kid and I just wanted it to go away.
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I just wanted to die in that moment and I just wanted it to go away.
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I just wanted to die.
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In that moment I just thought, oh, just pleased.
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You know, it was just awful.
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And it wasn't until the morning that, like, I came round properly and I went to the loo and I'd been bleeding a lot and I just thought what's this?
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And at the time I was getting the pill injection and I didn't have periods.
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So I thought there's something not right.
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So I rang my friend Johnny and he came down and I just showed him the front of my shorts.
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I went, what's happened?
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And he went.
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I said I think I need to go to the police and he went.
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I really think you do, and I think that's why they'd rang him the night before, you know.
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But then obviously it might have looked that I'd just maybe started my period or whatever.
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So I went to the police station and reported it at the desk and stuff, and they took me into the back.
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My friend met me and came in with me, my friend Danny, and we went through into the back and they took all of my clothes off me, including my underwear and my shoes.
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They didn't give me any underwear to put back on, no sanitary products for, obviously, the injury and the bleed.
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They just gave me jogging bottoms and a top and some sand shoes and I was made to wait in the reception for five hours.
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Do you want to dress like that, yeah.
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Jesus After being raped.
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Fucking hell.
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Erm.
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I will never, ever forget how I felt, erm, like a lot, a lot had already happened in my life and I already felt disgusting, I already felt a lot of shame and that just blew me apart.
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My friend ended up leaving because they kind of had to.
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They were really close, him and his boyfriend were really close to me and my daughter at that point because I'd started spending a lot of time with them after leaving her dad and stuff, and we used to sleep over at their house and stuff like that, and they had to organise getting the key off christina to get me into my house because I didn't have my bag or anything.
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And I I kept going to the reception, to the police, and I kept saying like I want to be in a room on my own, I don't want to be in reception.
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And they'd say, well, you need to go home.
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And I'd say I ain't, ain't got my key.
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You know they've stolen my bag.
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Whoever it was has stolen my bag.
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You know I ain't got a key to get in.
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Oh well, just wait, we need to get you to the SARC.
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What's the SARC?
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So the SARC, it's the Sexual Assault Referral Centre.
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I think that's the acronym I think and that's where you go to have, like, like you know, the forensic testing and stuff, and it was just horrendous, like I already felt all them things throughout my life.
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So then this was confirmed I was a piece of shit, I was disgusting, because this is just the way I'm always going to get trapped and I just didn't ever believe that an authority like that would treat somebody like that.
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You know, I was very naive.
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And when you're sat in reception as well, obviously having no memory of the night before when you're sat in.
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There.
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Was any memory coming back to you about the incident, or was there still some denial there?
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Was you still thinking, oh, it could have just been my period?
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Or when you were sat in that waiting room, did you know that you'd been a victim of sexual assault?
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At that point, Am I allowed to swear?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I've sworn about three times already.
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My head was fucked.
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Yeah.
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Fucked is the only way I can say how my head was.
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Like I'd woken up.
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I'd seen this stuff, felt a bit uncomfortable but at the same time, like I didn't.
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I still to this day don't remember the rape.
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I still to this day don't.
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All I remember is when I was sat there in that reception it was vaguely coming back to me about being in a car.
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I know I felt very trapped in a car.
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That's all I knew.
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No recollection of who was driving, or anything like that, at the time either.
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No, okay, no.
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And then I went to the Sark and the Sark were absolutely incredible, absolutely amazing.
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And I was fed because I wasn't allowed to eat all day, I wasn't allowed to drink because I had to get forensic testing.
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So obviously I'd been drinking the night before.
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I'd just been sat all day with no food, no drink, in public, exposed with no pants on, worried that blood was going to come through.
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That is probably.
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I've felt disgusting before, but that is probably the most I've ever felt in my life.
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Um, because it was that, like I've said, it was that whole.
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Well, it's confirmed, because if they're treating me like that, then it must be true.
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So yeah, I'd got to the Sark and some of the meetings I'm in now like the woman who trekked me on that day is in these meetings and I just don't remember how kind she was.
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There was a really funny moment.
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They were horrified but I laughed.
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Obviously they had to do internals and stuff.
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I had an injury inside and the injury that I got only two out of 1,500 women ever sustained that type of injury.
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It had to be sent to London and forensically, scientifically tested and stuff.
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So I didn't learn until it.
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It went to court and stuff like that.
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But but they have to like they even have to have a camera in there to, you know, to look at everything and invasive, I suppose, to get to go through that yeah, and then I remember standing up off the bed and there was just a camera picture of my vagina in my face and it was like, and they were horrified, but I just laughed, I just laughed.
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I thought, god, did you know?
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I just, I don't care, you know, that's the least of my worries right now.
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Did they find the person that did it?
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Yeah, that's the least of my worries right now.
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did they did.
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They found the person that did it.
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Yeah, and how, but with you not knowing, you know to be able to identify the person.
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Anything, how, how did that?
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come to be then.
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So they got for they obviously got samples off me dna samples and stuff and you can only have certain ones of the dna samples fast-tracked, you know, so up to five days that you should get the results back.
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All the others take a lot longer because there's only kind of the resources and probably the funding to do certain fast-track, certain tests.
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So they sent my pants off for forensic testing and they had his DNA and they also had him on CCTV stalking me up Beverly Road.
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So they knew who he was it took them from.
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So the night it happened to me was exactly the same night as Grenfell, because I remember watching the Grenfell and watching how Corbyn was supporting all the people you know who had gone through something so horrific.
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And I kind of felt through watching that somebody had my back because I'd gone through something traumatic.
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I mean, thank God I didn't lose my life because I was.
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I was left for dead.
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I was just left in a heap, unconscious on the floor, you know.
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So yeah, sorry, I've gone a bit.
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No, what is, what is, I guess, what's the long-term impact that an event like that can have on on you as an individual?
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What's we talk about?
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Trauma you talk about some of the things that you're experiencing.
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Um, you know the abusive relationships that they don't just go away.
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I think you've said it yourself.
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You know some of the things you've experienced are going to be with you now for the rest of your life.
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You know, in terms of your behavior and your character, what is the long-term psychological impact of of rape?
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it'll never.
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It'll never go away, um like, ever, like If I don't do this daily work on myself and affirm myself and whatever I am, that dirty, disgusting person, unconscious, right, who's just tricked like that.
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And I've been tricked like that a lot and I'll never forget.
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When it had happened, my ex used to say to me you're gonna get that out your head, you're just gonna get raped.
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So it was confirmed, it was my fault.
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So when it happened, it was all my fault, because I shouldn't have I shouldn't have gone out and I shouldn't have drank and I shouldn't have like there was, it was in the paper what had happened to me, and there was only one negative comment.
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But this one negative comment said I mean, nobody knew it was me because I was anonymised.
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But this one negative comment said what was she doing drunk down there at that time?
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And it just absolutely, and it's that whole thing again.
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Why is a woman out when it's dark?
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Why is a?
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Woman out when it's dark.
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Yeah, why is a woman out when it's dark?
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Because we fucking want to be.
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That's why why should I have imposed restrictions on me based on my gender?
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yeah, I mean, yeah, I think we touched on this briefly before we talk, but rape happens because of rape and I've, you know, yes, you said you was in a, you know, scared down to to your knees.
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You had your jeremy corbin t-shirt all irrelevant really, because there was an exhibit on in hull and I think we've talked about this in the past and it was, um, the clothes of victims, uh, of rape and what they was wearing at the time.
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And it isn't all short skirts and, you know, crop tops.
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There's people that was fully clothed jumpers and jeans.
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Yeah, you know, it isn't about.
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Rape happens because of rapists, not because of what women wear.
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Yeah, and I guess that's my frustration when I see comments like that.
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It's like no women should be able to go out anytime they want.
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How about you know rapists just don't rape?
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Maybe that's the answer here.
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Instead, I shouldn't have to say to you know, like my niece or my female friends, like, oh, oh be, careful how much you drink, because you know there are bastards out there.
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I shouldn't have to have that conversation with people?
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no, absolutely not.
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And you know, going going back to like you know about him and you you know you were saying about like finding him and and stuff like that.
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When they did eventually find him, they found him because he tried getting out of the country.
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So they didn't find him till the october this happened the same night as grenfell, but they didn't find him till the october.
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Um, and they brought him in and I remember I was teaching somewhere in in hull, teaching people drama, teaching kids drama and the school holidays, and I remember the police ringing me and saying to me we've got him, blah, blah, blah.
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So I was like right, okay.
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And then they rang me later on.
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They didn't ask me where I was, what I was doing, no, nothing.
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And they just turned around to me and went right, so we've got him in custody, blah, blah, blah.
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But he's saying that you were soliciting that evening, so we need to ask you where you were soliciting.
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And in that moment I thought why does it matter whether I was soliciting or not, even though I wasn't?
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Why does that matter?
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Because I'm a sex worker.
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That doesn't mean I can't be raped.
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And two, why on this earth hadn't you asked me.
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Why hadn't ask me where?
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I am what I'm doing.
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I was teaching kids, yeah.
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So after they'd asked me that I had to call on my colleague, she came through and she went sarah, you're gonna have to go home to look after yourself.
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But this was the constant treatment that I got, so not all that throughout my life what just happened to me.
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Still, even now, it's almost been perceived as your fault.
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You're being investigated.
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You're being investigated.
00:21:03.915 --> 00:21:14.307
You're being investigated, so yeah, and like, after that, it took him a year to charge him.
00:21:14.307 --> 00:21:20.086
So throughout that year I was like having constant phone calls with the police.
00:21:20.086 --> 00:21:21.621
Well, no, that's a lie.
00:21:21.621 --> 00:21:29.701
They very rarely got in touch with me, but when they did, it was always so traumatising because something had happened, maybe two weeks ago it felt constant, I suppose yeah.
00:21:29.875 --> 00:21:32.805
Yeah, two weeks ago something had happened and they'd not told me.
00:21:32.805 --> 00:21:39.059
My friend ended up taking the phone off me because she'd heard the way I was being spoken to.
00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:44.321
They'd rang me one night and they'd said, um, they'd said something.
00:21:44.321 --> 00:21:47.755
And I said I'm a bit upset, like I don't feel like I'm being kept up to date.
00:21:47.755 --> 00:22:00.142
I said I've never seen an officer face to face once since I reported it and she went I will tell you when you I will come and see you and speaking to me like this.
00:22:00.142 --> 00:22:06.461
And I was just horrified and so I started kind of sticking up for myself and she went can you stop shouting?
00:22:06.461 --> 00:22:08.425
I've just got a loud voice.
00:22:08.746 --> 00:22:15.499
There was no way in this world I was shouting, no way in this world I was shouting, and my friend just grabbed the phone off me and went upstairs.
00:22:15.499 --> 00:22:20.104
She went, went I'm dealing with this and she made a complaint on my behalf.
00:22:20.104 --> 00:22:24.980
But it was just like that, all the way through, the family charged him.
00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:54.156
It was over a year after they'd found him that they'd charged him, even though they had CCTV evidence, his DNA and thinking I was injured and I was found unconscious, um, and he was just, he was just bailed out, weren't remanded or anything like that, and it wasn't until he was caught with a blade around vulnerable women that he was remanded quite, quite a controversial question to ask, but you don't remember the event when it happened.
00:22:54.156 --> 00:22:54.217
No.
00:22:55.978 --> 00:23:04.523
Is there part of you that it's really hard to say because it doesn't make any of it any better, but is there part of you that's thankful that you don't remember it?
00:23:04.523 --> 00:23:06.986
Like to be a victim of rape is horrendous.
00:23:07.346 --> 00:23:09.367
Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is.
00:23:09.367 --> 00:23:13.530
I think sometimes I wanted to remember it, to make it real.
00:23:13.530 --> 00:23:13.810
Yeah.
00:23:13.810 --> 00:23:15.853
Because I was feeling all these things.
00:23:16.193 --> 00:23:18.864
But feel so detached from an actual event because you don't remember the event.
00:23:19.075 --> 00:23:25.825
Yeah, because my drinking it escalated when I lost my dad and it got worse and worse and worse throughout the domestic abuse.
00:23:25.825 --> 00:23:36.262
But then when that happened, that's when my using got completely out of control, and I mean completely out of control.
00:23:36.262 --> 00:23:46.282
My mum used to have to come and sleep at my house and stay over with me and I'd still be running trying to find alcohol around the house and I was uncontrollable.
00:23:46.282 --> 00:23:50.885
And it was 2018 that I went into recovery.
00:23:50.885 --> 00:24:10.438
And then after that because even though I couldn't remember it, I knew what had happened to me, so it just I wanted to forget, so it just sent me on a spiral and then I thought, if I stopped drinking, you know, will it come to me then?
00:24:10.438 --> 00:24:12.183
And stuff like that.
00:24:13.516 --> 00:24:19.423
So you're almost pre-empting, like sort of you know, I guess, drinking just in case, isn't it really?
00:24:19.423 --> 00:24:24.615
Because if you're drunk you might not remember, yeah, but if you're sober you might remember it, sort of thing.