#46 - Harriette: Alcohol Aged 10, Self-Harm Survival, Sexual Abuse, Discovering Autism, Overcoming Trauma & A Future In Conservation

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This is a Renew original recording.

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Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast, a 2024 Radio Academy Award nominated podcast to talk all things addiction, recovery and stigma.

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Today we're with Harriet, who started drinking at just 10 years old.

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She recounts her youth in a household shaped by her father's alcoholism and her mother's involvement in multiple abusive relationships.

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Harriet discusses her complex emotions, providing a deeply human perspective on living in a family torn apart by addiction, which led to severe self-harm and life-threatening situations.

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Harriet Hello.

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Thank you so much for coming on the Believe in People podcast.

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I'm just going to jump straight into it, actually, because I've got a question here that I think will really open up the narrative, and my question to you is can you describe how and when you were first introduced to alcohol and what were the circumstances surrounding that period of your life?

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yeah, um, alcohol has been in my life uh, before I was born actually.

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Um, it was introduced to me through my dad being an addiction, um, so I never really knew anything different.

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But for myself personally, my first drink probably was younger like celebrating like they used to give us carver at Christmas when we was young, but actually going out on weekends drinking.

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I think I was probably about 10 or 11, definitely still in primary school.

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My sister was a couple of years older than me and was just like doing the rebelling around the estate and I just wanted to fit in.

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Things weren't good at home at the time, so I just jumped on board with what my sister was doing.

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Really, Tell me a little bit more about what that home life was like then, for you to be introduced to it at such a young age.

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Yeah, so my dad was an alcoholic um violent towards my mum, and that relationship was over when I was about seven or eight.

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And then my mum got with um, a drug dealer, and he bought her a house in alteringham, a bit out of the way from where we lived um and she took up cocaine, got addicted to cocaine.

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Um and my sister just she was very close to my mum so I think she took it bad um and was just rebelling with like the other teenagers around the estate.

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I remember I caught her smoking and I grassed her up to my mum and when I caught her again she said you've smoked some of it and I so did.

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I had a little drag and she went you can't grass on me now.

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That's quite smart actually.

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That's quite clever of her really.

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So, yeah, that's how I started smoking.

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And then I thought, well, well, I'm on board now, so just started getting drunk on a weekend with my sister, buying bottles of like lambrini and cassini and ten mayfair it's almost a bit of like that teenage british culture.

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I think I remember you know the lambrini.

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You know a lot of the girls drink a lambrini when I was about 13, 14 so it's quite commonplace, I think in teenage british culture at least it was.

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You know.

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You know 10, 15 years ago whatever that may be going back to, to your early life and your childhood, you spoke about your mum being in an abusive relationship.

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Do you have memories of being in that environment as a child?

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seeing it take place, hearing it take place, it's funny because I had really a close relationship with my dad.

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I've always favoritized my dad, I think because I knew what I was getting with him and I didn't know any different.

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Um, whereas my mum was quite stressed and had four young children and was obviously in a violent relationship I don't think I had empathy towards her as a kid I just thought what are you doing?

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And I was more angry at her.

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So with my dad, when he left the family home and they finally broke up for good, I think I blocked a lot of it out because I think it was too hard for me to remember that aspect of my dad.

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So I think my brain just thought the healthiest thing for me to do was to block it out.

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But since I've worked on like my mental health, coming out of rehab and done counselling, it's like I've managed to unlock memories.

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Um so, just recently we had a bit of a debate because he got a speeding ticket in my car and I've not passed my test yet, so he's a named driver on the policy, so he's been using it, and he was screaming at me about it and I just I just couldn't handle it and I think it's because it's like re-triggering that trauma when he screams at me like that yeah, things that are kind of below the surface.

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You know, you said that almost unconscious memory exactly has it changed your opinion of your dad having this counselling and feeling like these feelings are being unlocked at all?

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yeah, I think at the moment it is really difficult.

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My dad's in recovery, um.

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He's nearly 10 years sober, okay, um.

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So he was helpful for mine.

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I stayed with my dad before I went into rehab.

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He drove me to detox, so it's mixed feelings.

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I'm really grateful for him, um, but I think in order for me to actually heal, I have to feel that sadness and that anger towards him.

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So recently our relationship's a bit rocky.

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He doesn't like the confrontation of it.

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He's only comfortable to talk about what he's settled with in his mind.

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So it's difficult for us at the moment because I have always classed him as my best friend yeah but at the moment I am struggling to see him in us in the same light of like admiration it's interesting because I think for what he's got to do to keep himself and his recovery safe and I guess what what you're going to do.

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It's funny to have that relationship with two people in recovery and to have that father daughter dynamic as well and and you know, you've probably got things that you want to address, maybe things that he's put in his past or made peace with.

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I can't.

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It's the first time I've actually heard of that dynamic even happening.

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So even now, in my head, I'm trying to get around how that could work, but it's not something that's going to be easy to process for either of you, because he's got to do what he's got to do to to ensure he, you know, maintains his recovery, and but you've got to address things in order for you to, exactly, you know, improve your recovery as well, haven't you?

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Exactly how, how was that?

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Um, and obviously, drinking at such a young age?

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How did that affect your daily life?

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I'm thinking more like your time during school years and and because you know, 10 primary school, you mentioned a very young time to to be drinking and I know, like most who said teenage culture, you know, I don't.

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I think you'd be hard-pressed to not find someone who didn't have their first drink around.

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You know, between 13 and 16, but 10 is quite young yeah so what was that like for you to go through school with those behaviors?

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and to have done that probably before a lot of your classmates and peers as well yeah, um, it felt normal with the group that I was with um, but I don't think, like I didn't really speak about it much, it wasn't something that would come up as a subject in primary school it's just something that I did on a weekend, but, funnily enough, when I got to year seven, everyone was doing it anyway on a weekend, so like it was normal everyone was going.

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We used to go to a roller rink on a friday and take out and have a little drink before and looking back now, I think it's ridiculous that like 12, 13 year olds are drinking cider and going on roller skates.

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It's like it's that hindsight thing, like I look at some of the behaviors of teenagers now and think that's crazy.

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And then I also think back to my own childhood and go, well, you weren't too much different yourself.

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Yeah, exactly those things kind of do overlap, but it's, it's like anything.

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I guess you always feel older than you actually are yeah I remember being in my 20s and thinking, oh god, I've got to get this sorted.

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My life should be sorted now now I'm in my 30s, I'm thinking why did you think that?

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yeah, I'm sure, there's things I'm experiencing now, my 30s worrying my 40s.

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I was like why?

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did you worry about that?

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do you know?

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32, 33 well, that's it like it through through school.

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I think, looking back, it's hindsight in it, um, because I got diagnosed with autism when I was in rehab.

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I kept the referral going and that was important for me.

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So, looking back, I didn't get like the support in school.

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I got sent to a behaviour school when I was in year seven because I was finishing the work early and then distracting everyone.

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So there were signs there early on.

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So I think now I look back at my school days and just think that I was just lost.

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Um, like I'm going forward with my academic side now.

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I'm starting university in September and I'm getting the proper support for it, like with the autism, and it's just like the whole experience of like what, what sort of support would I need?

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Um, and doing that whole assessment for the disability support, because at first I was just like I don't even know what help I would need.

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And then I looked into it and I was like whoa, I've missed out on loads.

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And it's on the report that I got back the other day, which goes to university.

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It says on the bottom of the report Harriet has never received educational support and that really upset me to read.

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Actually it's.

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It's something that I don't think schools are great in recognizing.

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And even now, do you know we've got we've got autism uh, you know well a possible autism diagnosis for my nephew and he's.

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He's five now and, like we all know he's, he's got autism, but we're not able to get the official documents, the sign off, so you can get that special.

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Do you know that the the educational helper is going to need when he goes into school?

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But I think it's a real filling of the educational system for children with autism.

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I think it has been for a very long time as well.

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How was that for you when you got the autism diagnosis?

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Did it bring you any comfort?

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Did it feel?

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like Definitely, yeah, definitely.

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When they called me back because after I'd done the assessment, I cried to my dad and said what if it comes back, that I'm not, because someone made a joke of it saying you're autistic, out your edu.

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And it's something that I'd never considered.

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Yeah, it saying you're autistic, out your edu, and it's something that I'd never considered.

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Yeah, um, I got told that I, like I had depression, possible personality disorder, and none of the diagnoses fit.

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I didn't feel like it felt right.

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When I looked into the symptoms and stuff I thought I'm not depressed or I don't feel like I've got a personality disorder.

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And then when I read about autism, I was like shit.

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Yeah, it makes sense yeah, yeah.

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So it was just the only thing that made sense for me.

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So when I got the call back and to say like you've met the criteria and you are autistic, I cried because I just think I'd never had that understanding before, even when I rang the doctors before I went to rehab to get the referral going.

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I rang the doctors and said I think I might be autistic.

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And the doctor said to me are you drinking?

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And I said it's not about that and he went.

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I'm asking you do you drink to cope?

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and I cried when he asked me that question yeah, because no everyone was thought he was going to just fob you off, like oh, it's just the alcohol again sort of thing, and blame the alcohol, sort of thing, but he was actually reasoning with me like.

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maybe you drink for social like help or like a social lubricant, which makes sense when I look back at my childhood, because I think that's what I used it for to, because I think that's what I used it for to just help me to be sociable, and it came at such an important time as well, didn't it that diagnosis if you was going through?

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for rehab at the same time as well.

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Yeah that must have been good to have all these things kind of coming together at once for you in terms of, like, personal growth.

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I think it was paramount for my recovery.

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Um, I think if I came out of rehab and I didn't have that diagnosis, I'd still feel lost.

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Yeah, because it's like I've always felt like something was different.

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So that level of understanding for me was just massive for my recovery and I think that's what spurred me forward to keep working on the mental health side of things.

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Yeah, because for me I've spent long periods of time self-harming from a very young age, from as young as about four years old, pulling my own hair out.

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And then I think for me self-harming was alcohol.

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I was just killing myself and it wasn't pretty.

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I severed my radial artery, I tried to take an overdose.

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I know I'm lucky to be here.

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I've narrowly escaped death twice and I don't think I really like take the weight of that sometimes.

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But I think that's also what spurs me on to make sure I'm living a good life and I'm doing something good for the world.

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Because I did get a chance.

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I was minutes away from bleeding out.

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There was, I remember them in the ambulance talking to me, saying, um, what's your brother's name, what's your brother's birthday?

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And I was saying like answering the questions, and I was going, let me sleep and he was going.

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No, harriet, you can't sleep.

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Obviously I wouldn't have been sleeping I was losing consciousness.

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Yeah, that's incredible and I wouldn't calm down either for the blood transfusions.

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Yeah, I could only calm down when my dad came in the room and I just cried I would.

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I was adamant that I didn't need the blood transfusions because I'd had a history of care.

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I was like use the blood for someone else.

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They were like, no harry, you need it, you need the blood.

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But yeah, I just I'm still processing that I think yeah, to fill the gaps in there then.

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So, starting drinking at such a young age and obviously you mentioned, mentioned coming up to this point and, and you know, going through detox, at what point did you feel that alcohol had really taken a hold of you?

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At what point did you realize you was dependent on this substance and was the event that?

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Was there an event?

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That led to that yeah definitely talk me through all that um, I had a tricky upbringing so I was misunderstood.

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I was viewed as a naughty child because, obviously, looking back, autism and they think ADHD.

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So I'm waiting for the process to go forward for the ADHD.

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They recommended it when I got my autism diagnosis so my mum just didn't really know what to do with me.

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So I was not treated well, looking back, hence the self-harming behaviour starting from a young age because I couldn't regulate my emotions.

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So that was tricky.

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And then as I got a bit older, I was kicked out of the family home at 16 from my mum having a drunken outburst and getting aggressive.

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So it was me and my sister to fend for ourselves from 16.

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And then I was smoking quite a lot of weed during that time and I was just like kind of white knuckling life for a bit.

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And then I got into my first relationship in 2019.

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I was very picky to get into one.

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I didn't didn't want to get into a relationship that was wrong for me and I thought I met someone who was supportive of me and like, really that caught me in a bad time.

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I was not in a good place before I met her and moved out to Dubai and the relationship was just toxic.

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So after like six months my brother got me plane tickets home.

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She hit me.

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It was just not a good relationship and I remember thinking I can't be in this relationship because it's exactly what my mum did.

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So I left that and I thought I'm not going to let this destroy me.

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So I straightaway applied for an access course into nursing and got a job doing living care and started doing psychotherapy on a Tuesday afternoon.

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So I was studying, working doing living care and then doing psychotherapy on a Tuesday afternoon.

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So I was studying, working doing living care and then doing psychotherapy on a Tuesday.

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Looking back now I needed time to process what was getting spoke about in those sessions.

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So that's when my drinking.

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I was a functioning alcoholic for a bit.

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I was drinking on the job doing care, looking after vulnerable people.

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It I was drinking on the job doing care, looking after vulnerable people and I was meant to start university.

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So I come away from that living care role where I got quite close with the family and the daughter was a nurse.

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She's been a nurse with the NHS for about 40 years and I remember thinking I need to tell them that I've been drinking and I told it to my psychologist at the time.

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She said well, you just do whatever's right for you.

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So I told the nurse and I told the daughters and they said that we knew you'd been drinking but you was always giving such good care that we didn't have any reason to pull you on it.

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Um, so then I went back home and I was trying to get a council property but because I'd been earning doing living care, they wouldn't put me in anywhere for the council.

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But I was explaining to them that I'm meant to be sat in university.

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I don't want to be around students because I knew that my drinking was getting a little bit bad.

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But I was just trying to keep myself on a straight and narrow and my drinking just got out of control.

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And that relationship because I was still in contact with her it was just toxic for back, back and forth for months and my drinking was just.

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I think it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

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I think that relationship just broke me.

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I think that I highlighted everything that had gone wrong in my life before and I just couldn't handle it.

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So then I stopped the term and I was in like homeless units and I went and got drunk and I had a phone call with my ex and I just went to take an overdose.

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I took a pre-gabalin and I'd had cocaine and when I got to the hospital they put like the curtains around me and they said you know, you're really lucky to be here, don't you?

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And I was like I cried and I was like I don't want to die.

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And then a few months after that I severed my radio light and I just thought I can't do it.

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I didn't have any control.

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I was like I knew I was going to die and I think all my family knew I was going to die.

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So I just I thought I have to go to rehab.

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I can't do this.

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I was trying to do like AA meetings on zoom and just like all this little groups that I was attending, and then tried to do community rehab and I was just drinking after things got brought up in the community rehab, it just I just couldn't do it.

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So after I severed my radial artery, I just rang my alcohol worker and I just said I think I need to go to rehab and she referred me for a complex case, social worker, and that got the ball rolling and then I was able to come down on alcohol use.

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Before I went in, my dad helped me do that.

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He would buy me a two litre cider and I was only allowed to drink it past seven o'clock, and that was I just couldn't wait to go to rehab.

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Then I remember I just, I really just couldn't wait and I my date got moved back a couple of times and I was like, fuck, I just need to go um.

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And I like, when I went to my detox, I went there and I wasn't like heavily under the influence and everyone was shocked because they were like you know, you're pretty sober and I was like I didn't realise I could have used this last opportunity to get absolutely steamboated.

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Some people do as well, don't they?

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It's like that.

00:20:15.580 --> 00:20:30.740
One last hurrah before they go and get absolutely trashed, but no, I'm glad I didn't and I'm glad that I brought it down before I went into rehab, because I think it just made me feel so much better, so much quicker, because I wasn't blitzing it before I went in, and that's with thanks to my dad that he helped me do that.

00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:39.582
I was about to say that's probably you know, obviously your dad being in recovery and fair play to him to put himself in a position where he's around these substances in order to help yourself as well.

00:20:39.622 --> 00:20:50.395
I think you know, and he must have I guess that's the thing you know, depending on where his recovery is that higher power, so to speak, and you know how is he able to help you in that situation.

00:20:50.395 --> 00:21:04.047
A quick side question, because this is something that I've experienced in the past with some of our guests In terms of your sexuality, did you find that, or have you always been comfortable with that, or did you suppress that at any point?

00:21:04.047 --> 00:21:09.050
For alcohol have trouble with being in denial about the sexuality.

00:21:09.050 --> 00:21:13.088
Did any of that affect you at all, or have you always been comfortable with who you are?

00:21:15.449 --> 00:21:18.265
I kissed a girl when I was in primary school and my sister caught me.

00:21:18.265 --> 00:21:33.433
This was when my mum was on cocaine, this was in Altrincham, and I kissed a girl one of my friends then and my sister caught me doing it, but she didn't tell me that she did so she walked in the house quietly and then went back out and then come back in noisily and obviously.

00:21:33.433 --> 00:21:36.394
I stopped kissing my friend and she's like what have you been doing?

00:21:36.394 --> 00:21:36.960
I was like nothing.

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:41.662
And then later on my mum called me and went have you been kissing Amy?

00:21:41.662 --> 00:21:43.807
And I went no, what do you mean?

00:21:43.807 --> 00:21:45.471
Like I was just really embarrassed.

00:21:45.471 --> 00:21:45.893
Oh, I see.

00:21:45.893 --> 00:21:53.089
And then, just to be open about it, I just I didn't have sex until I was 21.

00:21:53.089 --> 00:21:56.946
And then when I did lose my virginity, I cried my eyes out after it.

00:21:56.946 --> 00:22:00.108
It just didn't feel right to me.

00:22:00.108 --> 00:22:08.711
And then I slept with a few men that I knew after, like that I'd had good friendships with, and I just didn't like it.

00:22:09.412 --> 00:22:16.644
And then I came out as bisexual to my mum and funnily enough.

00:22:16.644 --> 00:22:19.240
My sister came out as bisexual a few years earlier and she went you're not, you're just fucking greedy.

00:22:19.981 --> 00:22:21.207
Stop stealing my gimmick.

00:22:21.207 --> 00:22:25.291
She was saying being bisexual is my thing, not yours.

00:22:27.040 --> 00:22:35.473
She was like you're not, you're straight, you just fucking read it and then, when I came out as bisexual mom, went oh, you're just gay yeah so the two complete different responses.

00:22:35.493 --> 00:22:38.726
I like that, yeah, especially how she was when you was younger.

00:22:38.726 --> 00:22:42.221
You, to be fair, if that's, if that was your mom's response, maybe she always knew.

00:22:42.221 --> 00:22:48.688
I guess, after you know, hearing that with uh, with amy when he was younger, that's probably the case yeah, I think parents do know that.

00:22:48.709 --> 00:22:50.520
They often say don't they yeah?

00:22:51.323 --> 00:22:51.564
yeah.

00:22:51.564 --> 00:22:59.258
So in terms of the things you've gone through there, would you say that there was a specific rock bottom moment that made you realize that you needed to change?

00:22:59.258 --> 00:23:04.901
Obviously, the you know, the close encounters with death twice is is you know I could, you could say that was a rock bottom.

00:23:04.901 --> 00:23:11.202
Was there anything else that you thought right, this is the moment I got, I have to change, or was it those two events?

00:23:11.663 --> 00:23:14.067
it was the set, the severing of my radial artery.

00:23:14.067 --> 00:23:16.232
I think that was the the.

00:23:16.232 --> 00:23:25.250
The catalyst for trying to get help was my relationship breakdown and when I was a functioning alcoholic, that's when I first reached out to cgl and and then I was going through a whole.

00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:29.990
After that process I'd tried to do the overdose and I severed my radial artery.

00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:31.182
And was that?

00:23:31.201 --> 00:23:31.703
self-harm.

00:23:31.703 --> 00:23:32.686
Did you do that to yourself?

00:23:32.686 --> 00:23:33.548
I punched a window.

00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:34.030
Oh, wow.

00:23:34.099 --> 00:23:35.866
And I went back through for the second pain.

00:23:36.028 --> 00:23:36.308
Yeah.

00:23:36.660 --> 00:23:38.541
And I completely, 100%, severed it.

00:23:38.541 --> 00:23:39.202
I didn't even.

00:23:39.202 --> 00:23:42.946
The crazy thing is I didn't even know how bad I was bleeding.

00:23:42.946 --> 00:23:47.372
It was outside my uncle's property because he's an addiction.

00:23:47.372 --> 00:23:53.182
So I was drinking, buddy, you know people who are in the same shit, you just find them.

00:23:53.182 --> 00:23:54.806
And he shut me out.

00:23:54.806 --> 00:23:56.009
And it was so stupid.

00:23:56.009 --> 00:24:08.229
I just wanted to get my tobacco and I punched the window and I thought, well, the first pain's not enough, and stupidly went back through for the second pain and it was a tiny little nick, the cut.

00:24:08.229 --> 00:24:10.807
There you can see the scar where they've opened it up.

00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:16.086
But, the original cut was just a tiny little V and it just 100% severed it.

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:19.224
So it was lucky, but really unlucky, unlucky at the same time, yeah.

00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:21.327
And my uncle didn't know.

00:24:21.327 --> 00:24:28.383
So the neighbours came out, they they were.

00:24:28.383 --> 00:24:29.865
I remember them shouting she's fucking bleeding to death out here.

00:24:29.865 --> 00:24:33.881
And they rang an ambulance and my I said can my cousin come with me?

00:24:33.881 --> 00:24:36.935
And so they went right, marshall, she wants, she wants you to go with her.

00:24:36.935 --> 00:24:56.855
You know, in the ambulance and he said he stepped foot outside the door and all he could smell was copper and he couldn't it made him feel so sick that he couldn't come out the door yeah and that would have been obviously all the blood geez and they cordoned off the property because they could thought it could have been a death, a death, yeah, um.

00:24:56.994 --> 00:25:08.069
I only recently went back around to the neighbors about a month ago and just to tell them like I'm alive and that gives me goosebumps to say, because it was just amazing, like she's gonna know what happened to you, would they?

00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:09.296
it's just there one minute.

00:25:09.296 --> 00:25:11.604
And then exactly, she saved my life.

00:25:11.683 --> 00:25:12.846
I said just you saved my life.

00:25:12.846 --> 00:25:14.190
And she said I know that.

00:25:14.190 --> 00:25:15.291
I did, I know that.

00:25:15.291 --> 00:25:19.407
And she said I've had nightmares about it yeah, so horrific.

00:25:20.308 --> 00:25:29.933
Um, I just remembered that when I had the relationship did break down and I came back from Dubai, I was assaulted on the plane back home.

00:25:29.933 --> 00:25:35.769
Yeah, I didn't make a fuss about it on the plane because I was so embarrassed.

00:25:35.769 --> 00:25:43.971
But then when it stopped over in Amsterdam, I turned around to the man and said I know what you did.

00:25:43.971 --> 00:25:49.771
And I said to him something like you know that's fucking wrong, don't you?

00:25:49.771 --> 00:25:54.806
And he just looked at me and scarpered down the aisle and I thought I can't put up with this.

00:25:54.806 --> 00:26:06.632
So I pulled security at Amsterdam and I said I've been assaulted on the plane and they had to change my flight and take me to do all the medical checks.

00:26:06.632 --> 00:26:08.422
And it's mad.

00:26:08.422 --> 00:26:11.249
Like they said that it was on the rise.

00:26:11.249 --> 00:26:13.073
It's crazy.

00:26:13.441 --> 00:26:16.473
You'd think that'd be the last place, or something like that yeah exactly.

00:26:16.473 --> 00:26:17.561
Do you know what it reminds me of?

00:26:17.561 --> 00:26:20.590
There was a scene in a Netflix show, Sex Education.

00:26:20.590 --> 00:26:25.567
One of the characters is on the bus and she's assaulted and she downplays it.

00:26:25.567 --> 00:26:31.923
I think it's much like what you just said then, and it's actually, like you know, contrary in terms of the overall story arc of that character.

00:26:31.962 --> 00:26:43.304
It's a big part of that, that person's trauma and how she's got over it, but the downplaying as you've said is something that that a lot of people do and the reason why I done it was because I was embarrassed, because I was drunk.

00:26:43.304 --> 00:26:45.367
That's it, yeah, yeah the embarrassment yeah.

00:26:45.407 --> 00:26:53.789
I was drunk and I thought, because they nearly didn't let me on the flight because I was so drunk, obviously I'd had my breakup and everything, so I was steaming.

00:26:53.789 --> 00:27:00.865
So when I got on the plane they gave me a couple of paracetamol and some water to try and, like, make me a bit drowsy.

00:27:00.865 --> 00:27:03.851
So I was, was like in and out of sleeping, so that's what.

00:27:03.851 --> 00:27:15.167
And then I just like was shocked that it was happening and I remember trying to roll away towards the person next to me, but I think that they were together and I was in an aisle amongst a group of them.

00:27:15.167 --> 00:27:20.821
So there was a man next to me and a man next to me and I remember trying to wriggle away and things like I just didn't want to make a scene on the plane.

00:27:20.821 --> 00:27:22.904
So I was so embarrassed that I got on drunk.

00:27:22.904 --> 00:27:26.451
I thought I can't say anything now because I'm already the mess on the plane.

00:27:26.471 --> 00:27:28.815
That's why that you was maybe targeted because he was.

00:27:28.815 --> 00:27:31.970
Yeah, I do position, yeah and that's that happened.

00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:36.361
Again, before I went to rehab, I went to a festival to go and see the strokes.

00:27:37.061 --> 00:27:44.769
Um, because I thought I'll just have a last hurrah so to speak because I love music and the Strokes are one of my favorite bands.

00:27:44.769 --> 00:27:51.434
Um, and I was after the festival had finished.

00:27:51.434 --> 00:28:14.240
I was a bit stranded and I'd had some drugs and some alcohol and I remember I was trying to pull over cars and I pulled over a car and again was assaulted and then, like I, when it, when it happened, he kicked me out of the car and I ran to a care home like I didn't know where it was because I'd never been to the city before.

00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:25.448
And then when I, when I got to the train station and they tried telling me off for, like I'd done something I can't remember what I'd done, like I'd had no shoes on or I can't remember what I'd done, they said they tried one of the traffic.

00:28:25.414 --> 00:28:27.505
People tried to say, like you can't remember what I'd done, I had no shoes on, I can't remember what I'd done One of the traffic.

00:28:27.505 --> 00:28:28.272
People tried to say you can't be on here.

00:28:28.272 --> 00:28:34.086
And I screamed at her saying I've just been fucking assaulted, and they went do you want to come in and talk to us about it?

00:28:34.086 --> 00:28:35.190
I was like not really.

00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:37.907
And they were like we think you need to talk to us.

00:28:37.907 --> 00:28:45.213
And that was a whole scenario and I only found out that that was going to be no further action when I was in detox.

00:28:46.894 --> 00:29:06.359
Do you know, one of the frustrating things that you often see with these stories is the people that would blame you because you put yourself in that position, because you was the one that got yourself drunk, you was the one that was under the influence, as opposed to just thinking well, actually, no, it's the fucking rapist's fault exactly.

00:29:07.463 --> 00:29:21.509
It's still something I do, still like something in rehab that we went over because I didn't realize, like, how much control was used in my relationship until things were pointed out in rehab and I still was like it's my fault for getting in the car, it's my fault for being.

00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:24.829
That's it, the blaming yourself as well, and and sometimes it's that's how you're made to feel that it's my fault for being drunk.

00:29:24.829 --> 00:29:27.180
That's it the blaming yourself as well, and sometimes that's how you're made to feel that it's your fault.

00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:33.546
Yeah, and because of the way society is, maybe that's the natural reaction to think, oh, what did I do?

00:29:33.546 --> 00:29:36.686
Or maybe if I didn't dress this way, this wouldn't have happened, and stuff like that.

00:29:36.686 --> 00:29:38.689
When it's like bull, fucking shit.

00:29:38.730 --> 00:29:38.849
Yeah.

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:46.662
I mean, I've seen stories out there from actually there was a an exhibit not so long ago.

00:29:46.662 --> 00:29:56.042
I don't know the details of it, but it had um clothes of survivors in in frames and on mannequins and the idea of this was actually some of these clothes.

00:29:56.042 --> 00:29:59.229
It was long pants, jumpsuits.

00:29:59.229 --> 00:30:05.145
It wasn't short skirts, it wasn't mini tops, or do you know all these sort of things that people would would assume?

00:30:05.145 --> 00:30:05.847
Oh, do you know?

00:30:05.847 --> 00:30:08.112
That's why this happened, because it's a.

00:30:08.272 --> 00:30:27.711
The whole idea of the exhibit is to show no rape happens because of rapists, not because of what women wear and I thought that was really powerful it's funny that you mentioned about the items of clothing, because I actually I actually wore a white vest and I put on it autistic and proud, like in um permanent marker pen, because I thought I'm really going to embrace autism.

00:30:27.711 --> 00:30:30.420
This was before I got diagnosed, because it just but you knew, didn't you?

00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:35.008
I knew that I was in my gut, so I thought I'm going to embrace it for this festival.

00:30:35.008 --> 00:30:40.238
And then, after the assault and stuff, I was like did that help get me?

00:30:40.238 --> 00:30:40.880
Did that contribute to it?

00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:41.662
Did it make?

00:30:41.682 --> 00:30:42.845
you a target is what you think.

00:30:42.845 --> 00:30:50.150
Yeah, and that's really sad it is and and I you know, you'll know, you'll never really know if if that is the case.

00:30:50.150 --> 00:31:04.983
But I just think it's you know it happens because of those people and you know there's there's no excuse for it, and I think you'd be, you'd be doing yourself a an injustice if you was to be thinking did it happen because I wore this?

00:31:05.084 --> 00:31:05.625
or I did this.

00:31:05.666 --> 00:31:06.945
I don't think you can do that to yourself.

00:31:06.945 --> 00:31:10.744
I think it has to accept that these things happen because people are not.

00:31:10.744 --> 00:31:20.180
Accept, that's probably the word, but understand that these things happen because people out there are just absolute bastards yeah um, you know absolute, you know monsters out there.

00:31:20.180 --> 00:31:28.576
Really, when you hear stuff like this, I always find it really upsetting as well, and you're not the first person to come on this podcast and talk about you know experiences of sexual violence and things like that.

00:31:28.576 --> 00:31:32.586
It never gets any easier to hear individuals' experiences.

00:31:33.588 --> 00:31:36.173
Yeah, it's sad.

00:31:36.173 --> 00:31:40.000
It's sad that these things happen, absolutely yeah, yeah, and it's important to talk about these things.

00:31:40.059 --> 00:31:47.576
It is important to talk about, because obviously so many people have probably been in similar situations to you that maybe could even be listening to this and maybe blaming themselves.

00:31:47.576 --> 00:31:49.566
It's just it's not the case.

00:31:49.566 --> 00:31:51.184
No, you don't need to.

00:31:51.184 --> 00:31:52.249
No, absolutely not.

00:31:52.249 --> 00:31:54.887
Do you know what?

00:31:54.887 --> 00:31:55.618
I'm just going to take a little.

00:31:55.618 --> 00:31:56.949
It's a sidetrack.

00:31:56.949 --> 00:31:58.681
I'm just going to Robbie, you're just going to have to edit this part.

00:31:58.681 --> 00:32:04.332
I'm just going to have to quickly go back to these notes and see where it was here um we can edit, no no, absolutely I get it.

00:32:04.372 --> 00:32:14.470
It's just like I've thrown you off course, it's just one of the things I I get really fucking pissed off when I hear these things and, like I normally when I'm doing these podcasts, I've got a real do you know?

00:32:14.470 --> 00:32:21.463
Way of going for and then something that happens and it just completely throws you off a bit, and I know it shouldn't be the case, but since having my, I've got a daughter.

00:32:21.503 --> 00:32:27.492
Now she's two and I, now and again, I just get these intrusive thoughts where I think, god, what she, what is she gonna experience?

00:32:27.492 --> 00:32:31.909
And deal with and that even that gives me the anxiety and I think you know I'd never want anything to happen to her.

00:32:31.909 --> 00:32:35.607
Naturally so, because the statistics of it are, just it's so high as well.

00:32:35.607 --> 00:32:40.403
I think it's like one in three or one in two women will experience some form of assault.

00:32:40.723 --> 00:32:42.386
It's it's absolutely and a lot of things.

00:32:42.386 --> 00:32:45.892
As you know, he talks about domestic violence, but that's one of the things that pops into my.

00:32:45.892 --> 00:32:49.865
I've got my niece is 15 and I often think I had a thought coming the other.

00:32:49.865 --> 00:32:50.708
I don't know what.

00:32:50.708 --> 00:32:53.364
She ended up with a boyfriend who was like really mean to her.

00:32:53.364 --> 00:33:00.846
I was like that's a high possibility that could happen, and I just get really mad about it.

00:33:00.846 --> 00:33:02.749
Yeah, fucking bastards everywhere.

00:33:03.810 --> 00:33:17.652
All right to be fair on the topic of relationships, then yeah how did your addiction impact your family and close relationships and and what changes did you notice in in their behavior towards you during your struggle with addiction as well?

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:21.231
yeah, there definitely was an impact from a family.

00:33:21.231 --> 00:33:41.000
I remember like my dad used to speak to me about suicide all the time and he'd say to me you know that if you kill yourself, that you're going to ruin the family for the when you're gone you'd be like I'll never be the same again and my sister would say it if you kill yourself, I'm not going to be the the mum to cory that I should be, because some a part of me will be missing.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:52.570
Um, and it just got to the point where, like I only found this out recently that there was conversations amongst my family of like should we answer the phone to her?

00:33:52.570 --> 00:33:54.082
What have you said to her?

00:33:54.082 --> 00:33:55.104
Have you set her off?

00:33:55.104 --> 00:33:56.667
What did you say to her on the phone?

00:33:56.688 --> 00:34:06.458
you've made it worse and so people are like treading on eggshells around you as well, definitely during this time, yeah definitely, and I'm really close to my sister, like I lived with her from when I was 16.

00:34:06.498 --> 00:34:08.260
We've obviously grown up in the same house.

00:34:08.260 --> 00:34:18.751
We've had the same experiences well, similar experiences, throughout our lives, and she said like a part of her was missing during that time and now the difference.

00:34:18.751 --> 00:34:21.434
But yeah, my family went through hell.

00:34:21.434 --> 00:34:22.119
Definitely.

00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:23.744
What's your relationship like with them now?

00:34:23.744 --> 00:34:25.369
Amazing, is it?

00:34:25.369 --> 00:34:30.875
Yeah, apart from the fact that I studied counselling and I psychoanalyzed them, that's it now.

00:34:30.916 --> 00:34:31.699
Now you're on the internet.

00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:35.186
It's like, I'm like that's a trauma response.

00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.409
Yeah, yeah, that's, I like that, but I fuck, yeah, yeah.

00:34:38.809 --> 00:34:39.090
It does.

00:34:39.090 --> 00:34:51.516
But you, the people, you know people I work with, people lived experiencing recovery and and like we can just be having a chat outside, you know whether you know smoking around the back and the next thing you know you're getting really deep dived into it.

00:34:51.516 --> 00:34:52.418
It's like, well, hang on.

00:34:52.418 --> 00:34:53.840
It's like I'm at the way.

00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.106
You took your jacket off, was it?

00:34:55.126 --> 00:35:00.503
you know you're just winding me up, to be fair, but really getting into the deep of it, what's your relationship like, obviously?

00:35:00.503 --> 00:35:02.545
Well, actually, you've said, you've said about your dad.

00:35:02.545 --> 00:35:04.989
Tell me a little bit more about your relationship with your mum.

00:35:04.989 --> 00:35:07.853
Now then my mum she's.

00:35:07.853 --> 00:35:08.853
Where is she in all this?

00:35:08.853 --> 00:35:11.061
Because obviously she, she had her own addiction problems.

00:35:11.101 --> 00:35:13.806
She still is yeah, she drinks vodka every night.

00:35:13.806 --> 00:35:19.806
Um, I have come to peace with the fact that my mum will probably never be at peace.

00:35:19.806 --> 00:35:20.407
I think that's.

00:35:20.407 --> 00:35:27.940
That's difficult for me, because she, she's a great person but she's been hard done by throughout her life.

00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:43.331
Um, and that's why I think, like looking into the stuff that drags you down in your mind, the things that have impacted you, is so important because she, she drinks every night, because she can't handle the stuff that's going on in her head, and I just accept that that'll probably take.

00:35:43.331 --> 00:35:44.704
That'll probably take her.

00:35:44.704 --> 00:35:46.771
I was thinking about it last night, to be honest.

00:35:46.771 --> 00:35:52.829
I was thinking Because she's saying that she's going to give up smoking, and I was thinking you drink vodka every night.

00:35:52.829 --> 00:35:59.498
Her chest is bad, she's overweight a bit, so I was just thinking realistically.

00:35:59.498 --> 00:36:10.235
I should probably put it in my mind like that she might not last the next 10 years or five years, and that's horrible to think, but that's the reality of addiction, like there is only two ways out.

00:36:10.255 --> 00:36:13.623
You either get into recovery or you die, what.

00:36:13.623 --> 00:36:14.445
What does she think?

00:36:14.445 --> 00:36:19.425
Seeing you then, what you've conquered, has that been any sort of motivation to her really to make changes?

00:36:19.425 --> 00:36:20.215
Do you think or?

00:36:20.637 --> 00:36:24.623
I don't know if it motivates her to make changes, but I know she's definitely proud of me.

00:36:24.623 --> 00:36:25.264
That's nice.

00:36:25.264 --> 00:36:28.090
Um, she says like I love you more and more every day.

00:36:28.090 --> 00:36:29.898
That's really sweet.

00:36:29.898 --> 00:36:32.684
Yeah, I'm becoming the favorite now.

00:36:32.864 --> 00:36:35.876
Yeah I hope your sister does listen to this.

00:36:35.876 --> 00:36:37.139
Actually, it's all right.

00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:48.574
You can all know I'm the favorite on both sides so tell harry, based on your experiences, what do you think are the most important messages that young people should hear about alcohol use?

00:36:49.596 --> 00:37:02.003
How normal it is and it's not, do you know, like how our society breeds it to be normal to go out on a weekend and then you'll do that until you've got a problem and it's your outlet.

00:37:02.003 --> 00:37:03.297
So I look back on my drinking and I think, well, did I always have a problem?

00:37:03.297 --> 00:37:03.565
And it's your, it's your outlet.

00:37:03.565 --> 00:37:06.007
So I look back on my drinking and I think, what did I always have a problem then?

00:37:06.007 --> 00:37:10.715
Because I always was waiting for the weekend or like I'd do my night shifts and then I'd be like, right, I'd get pissed.

00:37:10.715 --> 00:37:18.297
So I think it's just like the society we live in it's just normal to have a glass of wine if you've had a stressful shift.

00:37:18.297 --> 00:37:23.329
Or and it's like people don't deal with their own stresses.

00:37:23.329 --> 00:37:27.228
It's like someone said to me once you can't feel like a drink.

00:37:27.228 --> 00:37:28.961
You can't feel like a drink.

00:37:28.961 --> 00:37:34.742
You can feel a feeling that's making you want to have a drink, but you can't feel like having a drink.

00:37:34.742 --> 00:37:36.980
So you have to think about what that feeling is.

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:38.545
I like that, yeah, yeah.

00:37:38.724 --> 00:37:39.146
I like that.

00:37:39.146 --> 00:37:39.586
It's deep.

00:37:39.586 --> 00:37:53.858
It's interesting talking about culture because you know I've said about like my teenage years and how that was a big part of the culture, but one thing that I'm seeing now is, I think I think, generally hitting that age now, being a parent and, um, following some sobriety pages on instagram.

00:37:53.858 --> 00:37:58.797
One of the things that is quite, quite, you know, common is to talk about mummy's wine time.

00:37:58.896 --> 00:38:25.086
You know, getting the kids to bed having a glass of wine because you've had a stressful day as a mum sort of thing, and that's something that it seems to be like really perpetuated within that culture of just having you know that wine on the evening and how quickly those one glass of wine can turn into you know two glass of wine yeah and then so forth, and that, but the culture of it is is, is everywhere and I guess that you know, as, as a teenager, we're experiencing it.

00:38:25.387 --> 00:38:25.568
Yeah.

00:38:25.855 --> 00:38:31.943
When we go to college or university, we're experiencing it, and then even as parents, you're sort of experiencing it.

00:38:32.114 --> 00:38:39.644
I think now as well, like looking back, I think if you wasn't to get involved in the drinking like they're the cool kids of the year, the popular kids.

00:38:39.644 --> 00:38:46.632
So if you don't get involved, are you one of the nerdy ones, and that's frowned upon to be one of the nerdy ones and it's actually it's cool to be a nerd.

00:38:46.632 --> 00:38:47.574
Yeah, do you know what I mean?

00:38:47.574 --> 00:38:50.782
Like there's nothing wrong with being nerdy yeah, I found again.

00:38:50.802 --> 00:39:09.036
Going back to my niece, I found interesting her father is, is muslim and they don't drink as part of their culture and even though they're not what I'd call practicing muslims intensive prayer and stuff like that there is the cultural things that have stuck with her and she wouldn't even entertain the notion of alcohol as a teenager now.

00:39:09.036 --> 00:39:10.378
Or I mean she says ever.

00:39:10.378 --> 00:39:12.987
I should know it'll never be for me yeah, I said well, you never know.

00:39:12.987 --> 00:39:21.025
But I do find that interesting when we look at the cultural side of things and how that religious aspect of it to it, and again not practicing.

00:39:21.467 --> 00:39:22.190
But yeah, I can't.

00:39:22.190 --> 00:39:26.085
She's, she's 14 going on 15 now and I've no point.

00:39:26.085 --> 00:39:28.434
Have I ever thought about that teenage drinking being part of?

00:39:28.474 --> 00:39:31.585
her upbringing and her culture, which is a good thing really.

00:39:32.146 --> 00:39:34.795
But then I've had people on this podcast before.

00:39:34.795 --> 00:39:44.802
Um, we had a girl on and she said she didn't drink at all in her teenage years and then when she went to university, it was like oh my god, what I've been missing out on.

00:39:44.802 --> 00:39:51.483
And then that was it exactly that became, you know, something that really dominated her life exactly, and that's the thing.

00:39:51.543 --> 00:40:11.541
It's part of university culture when you leave school as well it is just a massive part of culture it's all over the adverts on telly and it's like for me I think it was from a young age Like my family would have parties, there'd be family parties going on, and when I started studying counselling, my tutor said to me she went, so you might see your dad drink.

00:40:11.541 --> 00:40:13.682
This was just an example that she used.

00:40:13.682 --> 00:40:14.036
So she went.

00:40:14.036 --> 00:40:19.722
So you might grow up with your dad being an alcoholic and you might see him in a toxic relationship and he drinks to get through it.

00:40:19.722 --> 00:40:26.563
And then you yourself might get in a toxic relationship and you might say to yourself while you're growing up, I'll never be like him, I'll never be like him.

00:40:26.563 --> 00:40:29.824
And then, before you know it, you're in a toxic relationship and you're using drink.

00:40:29.824 --> 00:40:33.023
And I was just stood there like that's me now Just describing my life.

00:40:33.103 --> 00:40:37.264
Yeah, Like this hypothetical situation, is my life down to a two.

00:40:37.766 --> 00:40:51.061
That's me Talking about education then how, talking about education then, like how can education and awareness campaigns better reach young people?

00:40:51.061 --> 00:40:52.606
Do you think, yeah, this is massively important, I think?

00:40:52.606 --> 00:40:59.548
I think like people need to be going around in schools and stuff, doing talks, um, and trying to like raise awareness at the right time before like the, the prevention element of it, isn't it?

00:40:59.588 --> 00:41:00.492
yeah, definitely.

00:41:00.492 --> 00:41:08.961
I guess the interesting thing is, you know, when you talk about the, the cool kids and stuff, like that I remember someone coming in our school and talked to frank was a big thing when I was a teenager.

00:41:08.961 --> 00:41:15.755
Someone would come in and start talking about drugs and and naturally do you know the, the cool kids, as we've said in quotations, there was the ones going.

00:41:15.755 --> 00:41:20.016
I've just come out of that assembly thinking now I just want to go try all these exactly.

00:41:20.036 --> 00:41:22.001
So it did the complete opposite in a way.

00:41:22.021 --> 00:41:25.534
Someone was like actually that sounds really good, that sounds really interesting.

00:41:25.938 --> 00:41:47.938
I think they go on about it from an addiction perspective but they don't explain how it can lead from a social thing to being a problem and people think there's a stigma against, they'll say, heroin addicts, like smackheads or bagheads and all these terminologies that people use, and people don't realize that alcohol is the number one killer.

00:41:47.938 --> 00:41:48.298
Yeah, do you know?

00:41:48.298 --> 00:41:50.503
And they'll think I'm never going to be an addict, like a smack and all this stuff.

00:41:50.583 --> 00:42:10.860
But I had a friend who went to a needle exchange because it was steroid use and, um, he was complaining when he went to the needle exchange because he was surrounded by, as you said in quotations, they're smack heads exactly, and I was like mate, you're going into a you know a pharmacy to get syringes, exactly to inject yourself with a substance that makes you feel better in terms of your physical health.

00:42:10.900 --> 00:42:11.884
How is this any different?

00:42:11.884 --> 00:42:13.797
How can you have that judgment?

00:42:13.797 --> 00:42:15.099
And he's like no, no, it's not the same.

00:42:15.099 --> 00:42:17.365
I'll say it is the exact fucking same.

00:42:17.365 --> 00:42:31.358
But as you've said there, with alcohol there is always, I think, alcohol, especially because of the legalities of alcohol, people look at others with opiate dependence and and because it, you know, heroin is illegal exactly.

00:42:31.418 --> 00:42:33.603
It's sort of moral high ground, exactly, and it's like.

00:42:33.623 --> 00:42:40.416
Well, I've seen alcohol ruin people's lives just as much as heroin exactly, and if not more, just because of how accessible it is that's it.

00:42:40.456 --> 00:42:41.039
It's legal.

00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:45.800
So I think, like the government, government don't really throw it in people's faces how dangerous it is.

00:42:47.438 --> 00:42:49.043
And it's the Euros playing at the moment.

00:42:49.043 --> 00:42:50.762
Alcohol adverts everywhere.

00:42:50.815 --> 00:42:51.237
I was listening to.

00:42:51.257 --> 00:42:57.583
Talk Sport and they were doing some Carlin correspondent that they spoke to specifically because it was sponsored by Carlin.

00:42:57.583 --> 00:42:59.813
But alcohol is everywhere, isn't it?

00:43:00.135 --> 00:43:19.125
I think it feeds a really unhealthy relationship as a society, because when you watch 24 Hours in Police Custody or prison programmes, most people are in there because they've needed substances and they've gone out to steal, or they've gone out to do this or they were under the influence of alcohol when they broke the law.

00:43:19.125 --> 00:43:22.121
And I just feel like, is anybody not noticing the?

00:43:22.362 --> 00:43:23.385
correlation there.

00:43:23.385 --> 00:43:24.659
Do you know what I mean?

00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:25.882
Someone said it not, so I'm going.

00:43:25.882 --> 00:43:31.545
If alcohol was introduced today, it'd be made illegal instantly yeah and it's only because it's so ingrained in our culture.

00:43:31.545 --> 00:43:35.329
Why, why it isn't so talking about governments and things like that, what?

00:43:35.329 --> 00:43:43.485
What changes or initiatives would you like to see implemented to support young people to make healthier choices regarding alcohol, if anything?

00:43:43.947 --> 00:43:54.661
well, I think, um, there's a lot of money being made off alcohol being sold, but I think that it's like people need to know the facts of it.

00:43:55.364 --> 00:44:37.226
It's like, even like alcohol related deaths, they don't all get marked down, because if somebody runs out into the road and they get run over drunk, they're going to go down as it's going to go down as a car crash, it's not going to go down as an alcohol related incident so the numbers for like for keeping people aware aren't accurate, but I just don't feel like they try and give people that information yeah, and I I thought about this before and I don't know how easy it'd be to do in terms of the logistics of it, but when you look at smoking, you can't buy a pack of cigarettes now without seeing some giant neck tumour on there that was caused by it, and one of the suggestions someone said before was about putting statistics regarding alcohol deaths on crates of alcohol?

00:44:37.306 --> 00:44:37.827
I think so.

00:44:38.074 --> 00:44:55.664
And I think, whilst it could be done, I just don't think it would, because think it will Because, again, I don't know the ins and outs of it and the way some people do, but the amount of money that we as a government, as a society, makes off alcohol, that's what.

00:44:55.684 --> 00:44:56.224
I think it is.

00:44:56.224 --> 00:44:57.206
It's insane, isn't it really?

00:44:57.206 --> 00:44:58.739
Yeah, the taxation of it.

00:44:58.739 --> 00:45:24.056
Yeah, I think it's down to people like groups like this and people who are passionate about recovery and passionate about making a difference, absolutely, that I have to to share the message, because I just don't see it happening massively from the government, while all the money's being made yeah, I don't think I'd hate to do um an advert an advert just talking about alcohol if you can't plaster on every you know creative alcohol that's been sold.

00:45:24.557 --> 00:45:32.887
There should be more campaigns around it, because sometimes campaigns when it's like on the, on the, on a bus stop or something or something you see on a website from the nhs.

00:45:32.887 --> 00:45:36.623
It's just a little bit like, yeah, whatever sort of skip, skip through it.

00:45:36.643 --> 00:45:47.798
But you know, I'm sure there's, there is a way to do like a really positive and healthy campaign yeah alcohol related deaths and illnesses and the point you made there on the drunk driving incident uh, not drunk driving, but being drunk and being hit by a car.

00:45:47.798 --> 00:45:50.329
It's a really, it's a really interesting point.

00:45:50.329 --> 00:45:53.945
So how many of these alcohol deaths aren't even being related and deaths related to?

00:45:53.945 --> 00:45:55.893
You know, alcohol is related to?

00:45:55.893 --> 00:45:57.922
I think it's six, seven different types of cancers.

00:45:58.927 --> 00:46:05.527
If people die from cancer, it doesn't necessarily go down as an alcohol related death does it, so it's one of the things where the figures for for um.

00:46:06.268 --> 00:46:19.396
You know this, this topic and this area will always be skewed which is even more scary when the figures that we are getting related to alcohol is so high, because then I'm like well, actually, if it's as high as it is how, how much worse could it actually be?

00:46:19.396 --> 00:46:21.661
The numbers we've got are staggering anyway.

00:46:21.661 --> 00:46:26.070
So to think that they're not even accurate and there's more yeah that's scary in itself.

00:46:26.331 --> 00:46:29.159
Yeah, definitely and I think it's something like is it?

00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:29.561
I think it's.

00:46:29.561 --> 00:46:37.255
I don't know the actual statistics on it I'd have to check but in doing like a different campaign for recovery, like it's, it's like one in three people are affected by addiction.

00:46:37.255 --> 00:46:56.077
It might even be one in two and it's not even if, like, it might not be directly you, but there's so many kids growing up with like alcoholic parents and then, but without knowing the actual information about addiction, so they think it's their fault you know, there's kids blaming themselves, and then it's interesting that I saw.

00:46:56.117 --> 00:47:06.226
I saw an old friend yesterday and his brother had an addiction problem and he said he found he finds it odd when he looks at they both had the very same upbringing, but one, you know, turns out, called dependence.

00:47:06.226 --> 00:47:09.900
And, and you know the other lad, chris, has been working, you know, full-time.

00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:12.896
One of the things that made me laugh actually is his brother's.

00:47:12.896 --> 00:47:15.764
He's a good lad, you know, he's been in recovery for christ nine years now.

00:47:15.764 --> 00:47:17.938
But when he says to him it's like, are you working yet?

00:47:17.938 --> 00:47:18.659
Like have you got a job?

00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:19.802
He goes only on myself.

00:47:19.802 --> 00:47:21.465
And I was like that's brilliant.

00:47:21.465 --> 00:47:29.036
Well, it's true, it's true, but when I heard that I could still happen, only only on myself- that's what we all should be doing, exactly.

00:47:29.056 --> 00:47:34.422
I like I thought it was just a really good answer plus something that pays the wages without.

00:47:34.442 --> 00:47:35.806
Yeah, if possible, um.

00:47:36.007 --> 00:47:50.318
So one of my questions to you is we've talked about autism, we've talked about alcoholism, um, but you also have a scoliosis so can you discuss how scoliosis affects your physical and mental health, particularly during your your addiction and the recovery phases as well?

00:47:51.842 --> 00:47:56.074
um, to be honest, when I got diagnosed with it, I just I thought it was on a.

00:47:56.074 --> 00:48:12.005
It was on a level where, like they said, if you keep working on it you can strengthen your lower abdomen so that you can support your spine more, and I just tried to pretend it didn't exist, to be fair, bury my head in the clouds, and I think that kind of helped me do that while I was in addiction.

00:48:12.005 --> 00:48:20.983
But then, like through recovery, before I went to rehab, I couldn't really feel the problems, the niggles with staying on my dad's sofa.

00:48:20.983 --> 00:48:23.172
And then when I got out and I was sober, niggles was staying on my dad's sofa.

00:48:23.172 --> 00:48:28.713
And then, when I got out and I was sober, and I'm staying on my dad's sofa, suddenly aware of it.

00:48:28.753 --> 00:48:31.601
I'm suddenly like my back's starting to work now.

00:48:31.621 --> 00:48:35.096
This isn't comfortable anymore, like I need my own place now what's?

00:48:35.157 --> 00:48:37.163
what's the sort of pain management that you go through for?

00:48:37.163 --> 00:48:40.099
Something like that, then, is is the prescription painkillers involved?

00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:41.943
I don don't really like taking them.

00:48:41.943 --> 00:48:42.445
I'm one of them.

00:48:42.465 --> 00:48:49.402
That's what I was going to ask, because that's one thing for people in addiction when they're prescribed prescription painkillers.

00:48:49.402 --> 00:48:51.686
Do you know Wary, aren't you?

00:48:51.686 --> 00:48:52.628
Yeah, well, wary of it.

00:48:52.628 --> 00:49:00.505
And I think that sometimes I think the GPs really need to have more of an understanding of what it's like hang on.

00:49:00.505 --> 00:49:04.371
This person's got addiction and you want to prescribe prescription pain pills is that a good idea?

00:49:04.411 --> 00:49:05.172
exactly it's like.

00:49:05.172 --> 00:49:06.315
Can you not see on my record?

00:49:06.715 --> 00:49:13.284
exactly, yeah, it's one of the things that always, always baffles me when you hear that, but um, yeah, it's just, it's a.

00:49:13.284 --> 00:49:14.248
I guess it's an interesting point.

00:49:14.248 --> 00:49:16.536
So are you supposed to take prescription pain pills for this?

00:49:16.697 --> 00:49:17.358
not really.

00:49:17.358 --> 00:49:21.204
I could get like naproxen and things like that, but I just I prefer not to.

00:49:21.204 --> 00:49:29.880
I think for me it's like about like try, I try and do yoga and I'll try and keep active and things like that because I don't want it to get to the point where it gets worse.

00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:34.300
I'm trying to make it better and I recently did get it checked and they said it's not got any worse so that's good.

00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.137
Then has it affected your mental health as well then as your physical health?

00:49:37.958 --> 00:49:38.159
more.

00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:52.302
So the thought of like maybe down the line I'm gonna like really struggle because the things is with scoliosis that you can either you can have um surgery or wear a back brace and I just don't want to get get it to that point when they diagnosed it.

00:49:52.322 --> 00:49:56.563
So luckily, like throughout my addiction, I didn't make it any worse because I've just recently had it checked.

00:49:56.563 --> 00:49:58.617
But yeah, that's the worrying thing for me.

00:49:58.617 --> 00:50:01.784
Like I don't want to get to the point where I'm gonna have to have a back brace or surgery.

00:50:01.784 --> 00:50:18.161
So if I can prevent it and probably good, came into recovery at a good time, because if I was in addiction I probably would have sped up the process of getting worse, because I won't be thinking about my posture- no, you're not going to be sat there drunk thinking, oh I better sit up straight better sit up straight.

00:50:18.181 --> 00:50:27.434
So yeah, don't go hand in hand looking after your health and, and you know, the yoga must be a massive help though I think people underestimate how positive yoga can be on the human body, don't they?

00:50:27.454 --> 00:50:32.161
Well, my partner really likes yoga, so, yeah, she's good for that A little yoga teacher.

00:50:35.635 --> 00:50:41.708
So when in addiction it does really take over, every single aspect of your life.

00:50:41.708 --> 00:50:42.536
Do you know?

00:50:42.536 --> 00:50:44.003
I'd speak in someone recently.

00:50:44.003 --> 00:50:46.119
They said it's in terms of recovery.

00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:52.661
For them it's not just a a day by day thing, but it's almost down to a minute by minute thing as well, do you know?

00:50:52.661 --> 00:50:57.780
But I think obviously there are a lot more positives to being in recovery in terms of what you can do.

00:50:57.780 --> 00:51:03.324
So what are you doing now with your life, now that you have, now that you've achieved yeah, um, achieved abstanced?

00:51:04.835 --> 00:51:14.355
That's for me like one of the most important things because, like growing up, looking back, obviously being autistic now I struggled with things that were going on in the world.

00:51:14.355 --> 00:51:21.646
I was like, oh my God, there's so many animals being hurt and there's so much going on and I just couldn't get my head around it.

00:51:21.646 --> 00:51:26.563
And it was like the thing that was a catalyst for me, like self-harming, because I thought I'm only one person.

00:51:26.563 --> 00:51:27.306
How can I help?

00:51:27.306 --> 00:51:28.257
Overwhelmed?

00:51:28.418 --> 00:52:02.507
do anything and I was just completely overwhelmed by the world, and I think a lot of people fall into addiction because they are creative people or because they are deep thinkers, and there's so many talented people in addiction it it breaks my heart because it's like I think it's the people that can't find the place in the world or they can't, um, manage the pain that they're in, so they turn to substances and we're losing so many people that are talented, that are amazing people, that could do amazing things in the world, because they find solace in substances.

00:52:03.168 --> 00:52:16.125
So for me now I'm going university in september to do animal behavior and conservation yeah, that's brilliant, yeah, so I'm really hoping to get some conservation work done in like places like africa and things when I'm that'd be incredible.

00:52:16.224 --> 00:52:17.556
Yeah, I love that.

00:52:17.596 --> 00:52:22.126
I know there's animals that need help and I was just like what can I do on my own?

00:52:22.126 --> 00:52:32.907
But then in rehab and through recovery, I thought, well, you better do something than nothing, and I do have a passion for animals and for the welfare of the world, so I'd rather be doing something.

00:52:32.907 --> 00:52:43.422
Yeah, and it's only through recovery that that outlook changed, because before I was just beating myself up with with a bottle, really just trying to survive when you're in addiction.

00:52:43.443 --> 00:52:45.007
That's kind of the thing, isn't it exactly.

00:52:45.047 --> 00:52:47.795
You can't even think about these no, big picture stuff.

00:52:47.795 --> 00:52:48.117
What?

00:52:48.157 --> 00:52:56.786
else is going on in the world and how you can you know, because you said they're contribute to that so yeah I think that that's incredible so yeah, so we do.

00:52:56.945 --> 00:52:57.246
I've been.

00:52:57.246 --> 00:52:58.675
I'm going to uni in september.

00:52:58.675 --> 00:53:04.099
I'm also studying counseling, so I'm dual studying and being really greedy with my academics.

00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:06.766
Now, that's just you apparently you're just a very greedy person.

00:53:06.766 --> 00:53:15.166
So I was counseling.

00:53:15.166 --> 00:53:23.934
So I guess when you do counseling it's interesting, because now you're putting yourself on the opposite side of the fence that you was, you was, you was sat on prior.

00:53:23.934 --> 00:53:26.304
Have you learned much about yourself since doing counseling?

00:53:26.425 --> 00:53:29.657
yeah, I think that's that has been huge for my recovery.

00:53:29.657 --> 00:53:39.797
It's like it's difficult, it's hard work to do, but it's it's worth it, because I feel like, ultimately, if I don't deal with what's going on in my head, that's what will lead me back to a bottle that's what will take me back.

00:53:39.797 --> 00:53:47.429
If I've got any problems going on in there, that'll be like oh, I don't what good idea yeah so I'm just like it's dealing with your demons at the end of the day.

00:53:47.996 --> 00:53:49.018
So it's like you learn it.

00:53:49.018 --> 00:53:54.960
When you're learning the theory, you're applying it to yourself and to be fair to being in recovery.

00:53:54.960 --> 00:54:01.862
I am ahead of the other students, like because I've got that first-hand experience of being in rehab and they like behaviors.

00:54:01.862 --> 00:54:07.735
You behave like this and you behave like that and you've got, you've got light shone on you and it's like oh, and then we're just getting into counseling.

00:54:07.755 --> 00:54:20.481
I'm like I already know all my behaviors really, really in tune with it, real aware so yeah it's been massively helpful looking at that side of things and I also understand that you're working on a project called the domino effect.

00:54:20.481 --> 00:54:27.876
Yeah, very exciting tell me more about the domino, because I don't know much about it, considering, you know, my proximity to the project I actually don't know too much about it.

00:54:27.876 --> 00:54:31.005
Tell me a little bit about what the domino effect is yeah, um.

00:54:31.447 --> 00:54:32.311
So it's um.

00:54:32.311 --> 00:54:40.844
It's a project run by paul and kev and they have got mancunians involved in it.

00:54:40.844 --> 00:54:48.407
I think they've done a similar project about kids in care and a couple of years ago and they've they've got a good team together.

00:54:48.407 --> 00:54:50.295
They've got a good creative bond.

00:54:50.295 --> 00:54:52.519
They're very funny to work around.

00:54:52.519 --> 00:55:03.688
Um, and they've had a good idea of like making a documentary and like a music video about the domino effect of addiction and not just addiction, the recovery aspects of it.

00:55:03.708 --> 00:55:11.088
Yeah, so it's like, how has addiction impacted you growing up and how, how does that go on to impact your life?

00:55:11.088 --> 00:55:15.585
But then, alternatively, how's, how's recovery impacted your life?

00:55:15.585 --> 00:55:17.336
Because I think that's really important.

00:55:17.336 --> 00:55:26.434
Like, yeah, it is really sad and it's heartbreaking the amount of people that are getting lost through addiction, but the whole point is that there is hope and is really sad and it's heartbreaking the amount of people that are getting lost through addiction.

00:55:26.434 --> 00:55:31.581
But the whole point is that there is hope and there really is, and people don't realise that when they're in the depths of despair, but there is hope out there.

00:55:31.581 --> 00:55:35.545
So we're just trying to make a campaign.

00:55:35.545 --> 00:55:37.240
It's a campaign, that's basically just.

00:55:37.240 --> 00:55:38.525
It shows this.

00:55:38.525 --> 00:55:42.907
It's got a documentary with it where it highlights the impacts of addiction.

00:55:44.356 --> 00:55:57.764
I don't want to say too much about you, don't want to give it too much, but it's interesting saying the domino effect because I I learned, uh, very early when I, when I started working in services, the saying nobody goes into addiction alone and the impact that by as an individual.

00:55:57.764 --> 00:56:10.101
I guess, when you know, looking at a domino effect, we could, we could talk about your parents yeah, exactly exactly how that's affected you, how your relationship and your behaviors may be affected other people, and so on and so on.

00:56:10.623 --> 00:56:15.983
But alternative recovery as well it's like how much that spreads and you know, for those in a fellowship program.

00:56:15.983 --> 00:56:19.637
I think the 12th step is to spread the word exactly isn't it.

00:56:19.637 --> 00:56:20.661
So it is.

00:56:20.862 --> 00:56:25.577
It is the double yeah, because it's like being in recovery, like my sister said.

00:56:25.577 --> 00:56:31.181
It motivates her to do more, motivates her to be better yeah and I think it's the same with, like, even my little brother.

00:56:31.181 --> 00:56:45.559
Like, the best thing that I can do is be an example for myself and for my family, um, and obviously I'm competitive, so I'll be the first sibling to graduate uni, the first sibling to pass my driving test the competitive side of it.

00:56:45.579 --> 00:56:53.541
There's nothing wrong with being competitive it's something that brings out the best side in other people as well, doesn't it?

00:56:53.922 --> 00:56:57.141
it's one of the behaviors that come up in rehab competitive, competitive.

00:56:57.181 --> 00:56:57.661
I was like.

00:56:57.661 --> 00:57:01.963
Well, you know what would be your advice to other people then, after, with your experiences, as young as you are?

00:57:01.963 --> 00:57:02.184
What, what?

00:57:02.184 --> 00:57:09.523
Would your advice advice to other people, then, with your experiences, as young as you are, what would your advice be to other people that may be experiencing some of these issues that you've experienced as well?

00:57:10.014 --> 00:57:13.204
I can't stress enough how hopeless people feel.

00:57:13.204 --> 00:57:23.442
So it's like I'm trying to send a message to the people who feel really, really fucking hopeless and they feel like there's no way out, because there is and I didn't feel like there was a way out.

00:57:23.442 --> 00:57:26.289
Because there is and I didn't feel like there was a way out, I didn't feel like I was ever going to get out of it.

00:57:26.289 --> 00:57:29.655
I thought I'm there's, I've got no chance.

00:57:29.655 --> 00:57:32.961
It's, it's taking me and it very nearly did.

00:57:32.961 --> 00:57:38.378
Luckily, my like I did get help at the right time and anyone can get help.

00:57:38.378 --> 00:57:48.282
We're in a society where there's luckily, there's people, there's communities like this, like, like, change, grow, live, where you can seek help and you can get better.

00:57:48.282 --> 00:58:02.764
And I just would urge anyone, anyone who's got a problem with addiction, to try and get that help, because the positive impact it has on your life is just amazing honestly harry.

00:58:02.804 --> 00:58:15.717
Before we finish, I've got 10 questions that I'd like to ask you, quick fire questions completely well, I say quick fire, I ask these questions and people often a little bit like I don't know exactly, I'm not expecting no one to get them, you know pistons or something.

00:58:15.717 --> 00:58:17.583
But first question what's your favorite word?

00:58:18.126 --> 00:58:20.715
word I like um juxtaposition.

00:58:20.896 --> 00:58:24.012
I don't that is a really good word juxtaposition.

00:58:24.012 --> 00:58:27.021
I like that one least favorite word.

00:58:27.521 --> 00:58:41.246
Least favorite words um oh, maybe like the terminologies, like smack heads, yeah, things like that.

00:58:41.246 --> 00:58:42.427
I figured I'd eradicate them.

00:58:42.427 --> 00:58:43.951
Yeah, I like that, yeah.

00:58:43.951 --> 00:58:51.461
Tell me something that excites you Nature, something that doesn't excite you the thought of people destroying nature.

00:58:51.461 --> 00:58:53.940
What sound or noise do you love?

00:58:54.802 --> 00:58:56.056
Music, sound or noise.

00:58:56.056 --> 00:58:57.903
Do you hate Shouting?

00:58:57.903 --> 00:58:59.177
What's your favourite swear word?

00:58:59.960 --> 00:59:01.385
Fuck Nice.

00:59:02.635 --> 00:59:04.242
What profession would you like to attempt?

00:59:05.175 --> 00:59:07.143
Ah, conservation and counselling.

00:59:07.414 --> 00:59:08.681
What profession would you not like to do?

00:59:10.996 --> 00:59:13.505
Not like to do sewage work, sorry.

00:59:14.817 --> 00:59:20.342
Understandable, understandable and lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

00:59:21.476 --> 00:59:21.958
You made it.

00:59:21.958 --> 00:59:23.315
Yay, come on in.

00:59:23.315 --> 00:59:27.260
I'm like, wow, I wasn't expecting to be here, lad, I wasn't expecting to be here.

00:59:27.260 --> 00:59:28.614
I was expecting to be the complete opposite.

00:59:29.074 --> 00:59:30.460
Bloody hell, recovery got me to heaven.

00:59:30.460 --> 00:59:32.500
Harriet, thank you so much for coming on.

00:59:32.500 --> 00:59:33.202
You've been wonderful.

00:59:33.422 --> 00:59:34.204
Oh, thank you.

00:59:34.204 --> 00:59:34.967
Thanks for having me.

00:59:35.277 --> 00:59:40.302
And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, Check out the other episodes and hit that subscribe button.

00:59:40.302 --> 00:59:45.329
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00:59:45.329 --> 00:59:53.331
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