#44 - Michelle Heaton: Addiction, Balance, Celebrity Mastermind, Body Shaming, Threat Of Relapse, Sobriety Milestones & Reality Show Realities

Transcript

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This is a Renew Original Recorder.

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Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast.

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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or, as I like to say, your facilitator.

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Today, emmy and Brit award-winning singer Michelle Heaton returns to the Believe in People podcast.

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Discover how Michelle's courage and resilience have touched millions, leading to saving lives and the establishment of a space and hull for her extraordinary generosity.

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From navigating reality TV challenges to overcoming body shaming, michelle's story illuminates the path to facing adversity head-on.

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Learn Michelle's powerful coping mechanisms for handling social media negativity and maintaining sobriety through diet and exercise.

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We gain insights into her advice for those grappling with addiction and body image issues and be inspired by her message of self-acceptance and balance.

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Michelle, welcome back to the Believe in People podcast.

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It has been 18 months since we last spoke to you about your journey through addiction and sobriety, and here we are today, another 18 months on and you're nearly three years sober now.

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I can't believe it was 18 months ago.

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It's gone really quick.

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I can't believe that it was right in the middle of my recovery as well, and we're here, like almost 18 months later.

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Um, it's crazy because I remember the interview and um, and obviously I've I've watched it back and stuff um, and whilst everything I said at that point was absolutely true, like, and my belief system and way that I work, recovery hasn't changed, but I've evolved, yeah, even more, and grown in recovery and it's amazing how does that look then?

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How have you grown?

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How have you evolved?

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I think that I'm better at like just letting things go, but actually I'm now understanding that I'm one of the lucky ones so far and that doesn't really work like that ordinarily.

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Um, relapse is usually something that unfortunately happens to most people through their recovery and I feel extremely privileged that I haven't been one of those people yet.

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But how close I could be at every given moment, because those relapses that I've lived through with other people have been on usually minor events that have sparked these relapses, and how fundamentally, if I don't keep on top of my recovery or continue to talk or things like this, and stay connected with people like me, I could go down that road just as quickly as they have.

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And I'm not immune to that.

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I think that's the weird thing from the outside perspective.

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Sometimes, once someone has sobriety or has recovery, you think, oh, that's them sorted now and you don't necessarily think of the the day-to-day struggle that that person is probably going through to maybe maintain that sobriety.

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And some people struggle more than others.

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Do you?

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Are you one of these people that really count the days of your sobriety?

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Do you have, like I?

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Basically I spoke to a friend not so long ago and I made a comment and he opened an app and he was able to tell me the exact minute hour.

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Yes, I've got the same app, probably it's out there, it's um, yeah, the tools kit yeah that we all have because it's got, um, the, you know, our sobriety date.

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I got it out last night actually because I was with Liberty X, all the Liberty X last night.

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It was the first time in 8 years and Jessica hasn't been drinking and Kevin's not been drinking and they've got their own app.

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They're not in, you know, in addiction or anything, but they've got 101 days, 102, and they're really chuffed for themselves and I got mine out in like 1085 days yesterday or something like that.

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But that was the first time I had looked at the days for quite a while.

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So you're not looking at it regularly and things like that, I think I used to be definitely easily the first year, because we celebrate those milestones in early recovery because it's the toughest time.

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I'm more prone to relapse in early recovery, so we have to celebrate it.

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It's an achievement because I couldn't get a day or an hour you know, if I was awake I was drinking, fundamentally.

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So to then have gone one day you know that's where you get your chips, isn't it?

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You know you get your one day, you get your one week, then it's a month and then it's like 90 days and then now, fingers crossed, hopefully, it will be now yearly, so I don't get a six-month chip anymore.

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I'm hoping, you know, please, god, I make it to three years and I get my three-month chip.

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So we celebrate it more.

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And now I understand why Because I'm not in that early recovery bubble and that you have to remove yourself from the bubble because you have to live life on life's terms.

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You know you have to.

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You have to be able to live in life and learn how to live life, because you can't control it, and that's fundamentally why I think addictions happen in the first place.

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We cannot deal with outside influences and things that are happening around us and to us, whether it's early trauma or you know a situation or a disaster and we want an escape.

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Not everybody turns into addictive behavior without escape, but I did and you know, and that's what I found it was an ease and comfort.

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So it's learning how to deal with everyday situations and everyday life that I cannot control without reaching for that ease and comfort of alcohol have you challenged that?

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um, do you know that mindset into something else?

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Would you say then, do you know, I think, talking about the escapism, um, do you know?

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Sometimes the case with people with addiction, once they give up the alcohol or the drugs, they focus that, that, all that attention and all that.

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You know time that they invested into substances, into something else?

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What would that be for you?

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early recovery I was dabbling in a bit of knitting.

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You know they, you know I remember in my rehab um, it was like get a hobby.

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We know now, living through it, it isn't that simple.

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Of course, yeah, we can't replace an addiction with knitting, horse riding, I'll take up swimming, like even the gym, you know.

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But what it means is that we are actively doing stuff that gives us a sense of achievement or that feeling that we used to get from alcohol without drinking.

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So I get my kicks from doing a workout.

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That's what I found.

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So I really enjoy pushing myself to the limits, knowing my limits and getting out of that, and that sets me up for the day.

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My morning prayers, I speak to my sober girls, do my meetings, aaca, whatever, and that I put my energy into, and my family, obviously, like first and foremost you know they didn't have a mum, a proper mum really, for like so many years and redirecting my efforts into family work and stuff that I now can do.

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That's where it's all driven towards that's one of the things I do like to see.

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Following on you, following your journey on Instagram, is seeing all these events that you do take your children to, like the premieres and stuff like that, like how nice are their childhood because I remember when we spoke before about you, feeling like you wasn't there as a mother.

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And I know you can never truly make up for lost time and things like that, but being able to give them that life, I think that looks incredible when you're taking them to all these places, it looks incredible.

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It looks incredible.

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It's an Instagram versus reality sort of thing.

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Yeah, instagram versus reality, absolutely.

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I know how lucky I am but fortunately or unfortunately, my kids were born into that way and you know, like all these amazing places that we get invited to go to and to see, that's been part of their upbringing.

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They have no idea that that's not real life.

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Yeah, but I think Faith, now she's 12, she's definitely changed her mindset and I think she understands what is real and isn't.

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She's developed into such a beautiful young lady and that's been because I've been present for the last three years as well Like, had I not been, it would have been more premieres and more parties I dragged my kids to because I could drink.

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Now I have the ability to say, oh, don't fancy that, we're not going to go.

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So actually, those treats have actually been a lot less than and infrequent, because I don't need feel the need to go to everything anymore, because I'm not aiding my drinking yeah and so as a family, we discuss which ones we'd like to go to, and that's really empowering as well for them.

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There's some like the Disney stuff and I guess that looks a lot more appealing to them as kids.

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Yeah, of course.

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And now Phase 12, like she doesn't want to go and see, you know, every movie that's coming out that's a cartoon, and even AJ's kind of over that now.

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So unless it's something that we all want to do and the kids really want to do that I don't drag them to every event, whereas you know, in addiction they got to go more events because I would drag them to them, because I knew that there was alcohol there in a party.

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For me, yeah, and I've been being younger you don't really question it as much do you?

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I guess you just go along with whatever your parents are doing, because, yeah, I guess I imagine it's quite funny for them at school, like I just go and tell the friends that they're just going to a movie premiere or something, because I imagine that's quite different to what the lifestyle that their friends have.

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Do you know?

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No, absolutely.

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Are they aware of, like the differences that they have, I guess, with having you as a mother and the things that they get to do in comparison to what other people are doing?

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Faith absolutely does.

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That's come with age.

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Yeah, aj's a little bit less aware, but he still understands.

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You know, like they're 10 and 12 now and they know that not all the kids, their friends, get to do what we do.

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That's why we we actually extend the invite, we always ask for extra tickets and they rotate their friends so we can take them with us if I get invited to premieres, we very rarely go as a couple me and Hughie.

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We don't have childcare or you know parents that live by, so I tend to take my mates and rotate you know all my best mates and treat them that way.

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Um, and that's been a pleasure.

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Can we just acknowledge that?

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The jacket yes um, because I don't always wear a pink lady's jackets um to to work they're very comfy, but I just got handed this and you're wearing yours and I thought it would be really impolite if I didn't wear it.

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And, and it's so comfy, no well to be fair that that takes us to the point I like to talk about.

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You know your impact on the book, on this podcast, has been nothing short of extraordinary.

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You know, by sharing your addiction, your recovery, you've not only touched, I guess, the hearts of many, but you've also you've saved lives.

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You know, your courage in opening up what your experiences has really highlighted the struggles that so many people will face and, as a result, you know, nearly three million people have been reached by our series and we've had people here refer themselves into our service to help with their alcohol addiction as a result of listening to you.

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It's nice, isn't it?

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But not only your generosity the donations from the celebrity mastermind appearance fee to establish this studio space has really solidified your commitment to making a real difference in the lives of us.

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And, um, I'm actually thrilled to show you that, that your episode has been instrumentally named as a nomination in the radio academy's best new podcast category because your clip featured now a submission, uh, it's undoubtedly contributed to our recognition as a series, uh, but more importantly, has amplified the message of, of your message and the reach of our podcast oh my god, that's a lot it is a lot and uh, to be fair, I had to.

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I had to write that down because I wanted to make sure that you really, really understood.

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So thank you, michelle, your courage, your generosity, your unwavering support.

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You have truly made a difference in this community and we are deeply grateful to have had the opportunity to work with you oh, my god, that is a lot to ingest.

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That's amazing guys, well done.

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But no, like, no, seriously, it's amazing.

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Um, I remember when I, when I got invited to do the podcast, it was because we had a gig in hull and so we could make it work and it was just a perfect fit and I was finding my feet in recovery and you guys were new and I would like to add it, absolutely, of course, like I'm there anyway like it's not like I'm taking a day away from the kids or whatever and just fit so perfectly.

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so that's what I call like a higher power moment, like i'm'm not a religious person but I'd like to think I'm spiritual now, whereby I think things happen for a reason, and I'm so honoured to have been part of that and to see this grow.

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It's just that's a lot.

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That's a lot.

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I like the describing of it being a higher power moment because it really was to think of.

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When we first met, you were at Proud and you saw a rainbow jacket as you was leaving the stage.

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You commented that you liked her jackets and I went home and I told my wife.

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I said, oh, we saw Libby Hicks.

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She said, oh, did you speak to Michelle?

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I was like, oh, no, we didn't get a chance.

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She said, oh, she's in recovery.

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I was like is she?

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Because she's in, she follows like a lot of social media stuff.

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And I was like I came into this office, funn it.

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We emailed your agent and it all, just, it all just stemmed to where we are here, all just that chance meeting of us seeing you coming off the stage.

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Yeah, if it wasn't for those, jackets.

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Yeah, if it wasn't for which I, which I have.

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I have that jacket, it's in my kit bag for for stage, if we do pride and stuff, so I still have that jacket?

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I hope, yeah, I'd love to see you wear it at another pride festival.

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It is there.

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But, yeah, what a chance.

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Meeting right place, right time and look where yous are, like all of everything that you've just listed there.

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It's an absolute honour to be part of all of that.

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And when, when?

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I mean I'd like to think most people in recovery when they do talk out and do do podcasts and do speak out that our end goal is to reach that one person.

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Right, so the other numbers who followed that is just incredible.

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Yeah, but if we could reach one person like I was reached, then that's, that's, that's our objective of doing this, and also, selfishly, if I don't do things like this, I don't get to let things go or to talk about my struggles for you isn't?

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it absolutely and that's why we, that's why it's so important to open the narrative of addiction and to talk, which is you know.

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Obviously, one of the ethos's of everything that you're doing here is to talk about what people are struggling with, because it doesn't just reach out to other people.

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It's also something we need to carry on our recovery.

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Yeah, it's understanding the weight of it, I guess, isn't it?

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That's a big thing.

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That's a lot.

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Well done on the nomination.

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Thank you very much.

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That's incredible.

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We're very much looking forward to it.

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We'll see how it goes.

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We're half confident, aren't we as confident as you can be in any award situation, really?

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Who are you up against?

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There's a lot of BBC in there.

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To be fair, we feel like we are among giants when we look at that category listing.

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But even just to be nominated my producer gave me the facts of how many podcasts are actually put forward even to be shortlisted into that that in itself is an achievement, whether we win the award or not, I think just to say that we have been nominated for this award.

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I don't think I realised the weight of it.

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To be fair, my producer's more clued up on this stuff.

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He told me I was like oh cool.

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He was like no, no this is a really big thing.

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It is a big deal.

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I is a big deal um, I've been to those awards in the past before.

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It's a really big deal and I'm so happy for years.

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Yeah, it was.

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I think it was rylan clark that presented it last year I saw a video.

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Yes, I was like oh, this, this isn't this is you mean your?

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Double, yeah, my double, according to that picture, um, I guess, I guess, coming back to my question, then, really and you've kind of answered this already but how important is it to you to use your platform to help others in your, or have been in in your situation?

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you know I'll be honest at the beginning.

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I I didn't want anybody to know um I think that's the amazing thing about it, isn't it?

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it's it's to do that complete 180, to have all that shame about it, so much shame, and guilt and remorse and and like just thinking that if anybody knew the state I'm in or knew that I was an addict, how would that pan out?

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And my thought process meant divorced, never work again, lose all my friends and never get booked for another job again.

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That's what my mind takes me to, and you know.

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And so for anybody going through addiction, I completely and utterly resonate with that way of thinking, because that was me.

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It wasn't until people found out that I was in the priory that then I could see firsthand how this could go different and how actually there was support.

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I thought there'd be no support system.

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I didn't think anybody would get what I was going through, because I thought it was just me who suffered from this you know, when you're in active addiction, you think that you're the only person who can't stop.

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You're the only person that's literally on that floor.

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You know, when you're in active addiction, you think that you're the only person who can't stop.

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You're the only person that's literally on that floor.

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You know whether it's drinking from a massive two litre bottle of vodka in my case, that you're the only person that is there.

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There's nobody else like you.

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Everyone's different Because you compare yourself to everybody else.

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Different, um, because you you don't, because you can pay yourself to everybody else.

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And but once it was kind of public knowledge where I was being treated and what I was being treated for.

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Um, I was very shut off from the outside world.

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But the couple days when I came out, it was very supportive and it was all we've suffered too, and I was like, oh my god, there's people like me there.

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So I was then opened up to the idea that I wasn't alone, and so maybe if that message had been out there for me to hear that I wasn't the only one earlier, who knows, I might have asked for help earlier.

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Probably not, because they say that unless you're willing to accept help which which I totally understand you can't receive it, and that's kind of how it was, you know, until I was ready to accept what help was there, but I realized I wasn't alone.

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So then for me to then think that way, okay, so then if I'm talking about it openly, so then, if I'm talking about it openly, then maybe somebody who was like me six weeks ago would hear that story and get help before it got to my stage or before it gets worse, because there's so many yets in my story.

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You know, I didn't do heroin, I didn't take pills, I didn't take crack yet crack.

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Yet yeah, had I continued down the road I was at, which was quite dark in itself, all of those yet potentially would have happened by now because the drugs, the alcohol, stopped working, stopped working for me.

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So you move on to something else to get the same feeling or talking about that escapism yeah how else can I escape?

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and what sort?

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of escapism.

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Can this new substance?

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yeah, made you know because like it's not, it's not like I became a heavy drinker and then and then go right, in a few months time I'm going to go on to cocaine yeah it was like I drank a lot but I'd never touch cocaine.

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Oh my god, that's, that's a god, I would never do that.

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And then that came.

00:19:04.468 --> 00:19:09.605
So me, me swearing off, I'd never touch x, y and z you don't know, do you?

00:19:09.885 --> 00:19:15.242
we don't know, and if I ever you know, they say live, each day is a time.

00:19:15.242 --> 00:19:24.631
Because I've only got today, because I can't tell you tomorrow I'll be, I'll be clean and sober, um, I can tell you, I hope I'm not gonna be and I'm gonna do everything in my power not to be.

00:19:24.631 --> 00:19:34.347
And right now, sitting here with you, I don't have any urge to drink or use, but say that relapse came it very quickly, elevates to those.

00:19:34.387 --> 00:19:34.769
Yes.

00:19:35.641 --> 00:19:38.727
That hadn't happened before, but will happen if I continue.

00:19:39.101 --> 00:19:53.692
There's a couple of things that I think, talking about the isolation, one of the lads that I mentored said to me was at the church last week and was talking about the community area and he said you know, he said the opposite of addiction and isolation is community and connection.

00:19:53.692 --> 00:20:04.152
And I was like, ah, there's this little penny drop moment where I was like, hey, you're absolutely right there and it is a lot of the isolating, as you've said in your story to us, like you, just shoot yourself off and drink.

00:20:04.451 --> 00:20:05.153
Yeah, isolation.

00:20:06.019 --> 00:20:08.409
The isolation and the drink and those things go hand in hand.

00:20:08.409 --> 00:20:11.147
But for recovery it is about the community.

00:20:11.147 --> 00:20:12.131
It is about the connection.

00:20:12.131 --> 00:20:13.326
It is about having the support.

00:20:13.326 --> 00:20:19.148
I guess reality TV has obviously played a huge part in your professional life and you've got a big break on.

00:20:19.148 --> 00:20:21.246
You've got your big break on pop stars.

00:20:21.246 --> 00:20:34.210
Since we last spoke to you, it's fascinating to see how you've embraced challenging experiences like dancing on ice and the celebrity sas, who dares wins, where you got uh whiplash and swamp eye as well, oh my, god, I'm wrecked.

00:20:34.230 --> 00:20:45.690
Do you feel there's an element of intentionally choosing difficult challenges and, if so, do you see any parallels between this approach and the journey of recovery, where individuals often face tough tasks head on.

00:20:45.750 --> 00:20:47.051
Yeah, great question.

00:20:47.051 --> 00:21:06.729
Actually there is a parallel and I think for me, pushing myself in those things and having it a goal helps my recovery, undoubtedly, whether it's running a marathon, a half marathon, you know.

00:21:06.729 --> 00:21:08.845
For me obviously it was SAS and Dan's Ice.

00:21:08.845 --> 00:21:11.491
They're the extremes, not everybody gets to experience something like that.

00:21:11.491 --> 00:21:21.627
But pushing yourself to an end goal, having something to work towards, definitely helps recovery, especially early stages, and I was able to do those things.

00:21:21.627 --> 00:21:27.971
So, pre getting sober, I've auditioned for those and danced on ice twice before.

00:21:27.971 --> 00:21:33.332
There was no way that they would have hired me because the last time I auditioned I was drunk.

00:21:33.332 --> 00:21:37.086
I didn't think I'd be a drunk, I had no idea they knew.

00:21:37.086 --> 00:21:41.330
But I had just had, you know, a drink in the car park before I went on the ice.

00:21:41.330 --> 00:21:44.005
How dangerous that would have been, so dangerous.

00:21:44.005 --> 00:21:49.815
And at that time, through addiction, I was like, well, screw them, you know, what do they know?

00:21:49.815 --> 00:21:56.409
And I'd be angry, really angry, that I wasn't getting things that I wanted or that I thought I wanted.

00:21:56.769 --> 00:21:58.292
But, no, like looking back.

00:21:58.292 --> 00:21:59.365
Of course they're not going to hire me.

00:21:59.365 --> 00:22:04.805
So those two particular shows was something that I wanted to prove myself that I could do.

00:22:04.805 --> 00:22:16.682
I found out by then being accepted on those shows how alcohol and drugs had been held in me back so long.

00:22:16.682 --> 00:22:27.537
It proved not that it needed to be proven because I understood, but it showed me that for so many years, so many opportunities would have been missed.

00:22:27.537 --> 00:22:37.855
Yeah, because of my addiction, when at that time I was so angry that I drank on that so it got worse.

00:22:37.855 --> 00:22:48.419
So doing those things to push myself was to prove to me that I could do it and I utterly failed at both.

00:22:48.419 --> 00:22:53.221
So, yeah, I mean, I did everything, everything and more.

00:22:53.221 --> 00:22:57.740
The experience doing both those shows was incredible, very, very different.

00:22:58.590 --> 00:23:00.739
Is Celebrity SAS as hard as it looks?

00:23:00.739 --> 00:23:03.640
Because on camera, you know, it's kind of one of the.

00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:16.618
It reminds me there was a celebrity that one and I'm a celebrity, get me out of here before, and I think it was Harry Redknapp and he said something along the lines of he thought that they filmed it and then cut it, and then they all had bacon sandwiches in the bricks.

00:23:16.618 --> 00:23:18.501
He said that's what it is.

00:23:18.501 --> 00:23:19.323
Throughout the full thing.

00:23:19.323 --> 00:23:20.845
Celebrity SAS?

00:23:20.845 --> 00:23:24.498
Is it as harsh as it looks?

00:23:24.498 --> 00:23:25.039
It's worse.

00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:25.540
Is it worse?

00:23:26.673 --> 00:23:32.359
It is worse and I did do my research before going on it, I mean, I accepted it anyway before.

00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.428
I did my research, but I found out from, like Harry Katona and.

00:23:35.428 --> 00:23:40.378
Jake Quiginton and a couple of other people that I knew had been on it, that it was going to be worse than what I saw.

00:23:40.378 --> 00:23:43.479
Okay, but nothing really prepares you.

00:23:43.479 --> 00:23:53.490
As soon as we went into the jungle, the producers, the cameras, and there's loads they're all camouflaged.

00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:55.951
You don't talk to them, they don't pull you aside.

00:23:55.951 --> 00:23:59.079
For, for, for off you know, camera meetings and stuff like that.

00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:00.490
They do not get involved.

00:24:00.490 --> 00:24:06.501
Wow, the only people in that jungle then is is is yourselves and the four guys.

00:24:06.501 --> 00:24:07.584
That is it.

00:24:07.584 --> 00:24:10.156
That's all we talk to them and each other.

00:24:10.156 --> 00:24:15.009
And there was so many things that aren't shown, like the sleep deprivation.

00:24:15.009 --> 00:24:17.717
Every hour they would get you up.

00:24:17.717 --> 00:24:24.898
We were on night watch, so every hour you'd you know two people would be on watch and then you'd go and wake up the next couple of people that were doing it.

00:24:24.898 --> 00:24:27.013
So by I think I lasted day three.

00:24:27.013 --> 00:24:33.333
By that time we're all hallucinating and and tired and knackered, as well as doing that day's thing.

00:24:33.333 --> 00:24:38.875
The backpacks that we all wear are the same weight, no matter who you are.

00:24:38.875 --> 00:24:41.919
That was my downfall.

00:24:41.919 --> 00:24:43.435
I couldn't move with the power.

00:24:45.270 --> 00:24:48.922
Me and Melinda Messenger it weighed like half of our body weight.

00:24:48.922 --> 00:24:55.857
We couldn't walk with it, let alone climb a mountain, so I kind of figured that we were going to be going quite early on.

00:24:55.857 --> 00:24:57.762
Well, at least you did it, though, but I loved it.

00:24:57.762 --> 00:25:00.940
In a weird, weird, messed up kind of way.

00:25:00.940 --> 00:25:02.414
I absolutely loved it.

00:25:02.434 --> 00:25:03.578
Do you know what?

00:25:03.578 --> 00:25:18.040
I think it's just one of the things where, like I guess, like anything with TV, when you're watching a drama, there's the cut, there's the start again, and you just kind of even when you watch it on tv like is it as hard as as it looks?

00:25:18.040 --> 00:25:25.992
Yeah, but with those shows, I think, since having little snippets of what things like the jungle could be like and and that it is one of those where I did have to question.

00:25:26.032 --> 00:25:29.260
I was like no, I think it could be as brutal as it seems, you know?

00:25:29.260 --> 00:25:32.820
No, it is definitely far from the glamour that you got on Dancing on Ice as well.

00:25:33.503 --> 00:25:36.253
I mean, yeah, I mean, there were very, very different things Very different shows.

00:25:36.295 --> 00:25:46.500
Yeah, I think, like SAS was a condensed hardest thing I've done, but Dancing on Ice for my body was the hardest thing I've done.

00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:53.337
Yeah, long process, the training I loved it Like I loved every single thing about it.

00:25:53.337 --> 00:25:54.461
I loved being on ice.

00:25:54.461 --> 00:25:57.738
I just wasn't good at it, even though I loved it.

00:25:57.738 --> 00:26:06.105
And I think, like I come to terms with the fact halfway through training that I wasn't going to be awesome, so I just gave it away.

00:26:06.105 --> 00:26:09.994
And that's the power of recovery right, giving it away and going.

00:26:09.994 --> 00:26:10.536
You know what?

00:26:10.536 --> 00:26:12.479
This is everything that I dreamed of.

00:26:12.479 --> 00:26:13.760
I always want to do dance and ice.

00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:17.857
I know I'm not going to be amazing, so let's just make the most of it.

00:26:18.309 --> 00:26:27.080
I put in 120% effort to end up to every training on time, unlike some people that get away with whatever they get away with.

00:26:27.080 --> 00:26:28.836
You know we won't rename people.

00:26:28.836 --> 00:26:31.278
There's always people like that in the past.

00:26:31.278 --> 00:26:33.074
And usually they do.

00:26:33.074 --> 00:26:34.137
Well, you know.

00:26:34.137 --> 00:26:37.042
But anyway, no, not angry at all.

00:26:37.625 --> 00:26:39.394
Give it away, not bitter at all.

00:26:39.770 --> 00:26:40.314
Give it away.

00:26:40.334 --> 00:26:43.676
You see on the podcast and just took it for what it was.

00:26:43.890 --> 00:26:44.010
And.

00:26:44.131 --> 00:26:58.481
I had the best time, just age and my body, you know, through menopause and addiction, like you, a professional ice skater telling me something in here to get down to the feet in a nanosecond just wasn't going to happen.

00:26:58.481 --> 00:27:03.797
I had to process it, give it a bit of a cuddle down there and then tell it what to do to the feet.

00:27:03.797 --> 00:27:05.637
And by the time I got to the feet the feet were wobbling.

00:27:05.931 --> 00:27:06.954
It just didn't work for me.

00:27:06.954 --> 00:27:07.738
It's not easy.

00:27:07.738 --> 00:27:17.212
It's one of the ones where you see a lot of those shows and and I often question when people come on, and it's like, when they come on and they're able to hit something perfect, they're like, oh, I've never done this before in my life.

00:27:17.493 --> 00:27:18.736
Bollocks Exactly.

00:27:18.797 --> 00:27:19.818
Am I allowed to swear?

00:27:19.858 --> 00:27:20.099
Yeah.

00:27:20.420 --> 00:27:21.261
Absolute bollocks.

00:27:21.830 --> 00:27:25.430
I know it's bollocks, I know that is bollocks.

00:27:25.430 --> 00:27:37.505
They've been training for a year already, or something like that, or skated in childhood, I think the people who produce the shows and who make the shows have to have a cast of people who are going to be good and bad.

00:27:38.291 --> 00:27:40.358
It wouldn't be a good show if everyone was bad.

00:27:40.650 --> 00:27:42.759
So it is unfair absolutely.

00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.740
Because we're not starting on level playing field here.

00:27:45.740 --> 00:27:55.457
Like I am not an ice skater, I can dance on flat floor without blades, but it's very different on ice.

00:27:55.457 --> 00:28:06.531
But there was a lot of people who had that training and some people who had the training that actually weren't as good as some of the other people, so it's all relative isn't it but?

00:28:06.531 --> 00:28:08.459
Yeah, there's definitely those people.

00:28:09.231 --> 00:28:14.819
I like how they call it reality TV as well, though, when you do think it's like how much of it is the reality of it and how much isn't it.

00:28:16.133 --> 00:28:17.492
Do you know what Dan's eyes is?

00:28:17.492 --> 00:28:22.220
Brutal though the injuries that we were, all that most of us had.

00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:29.000
And you know I remember Carly, the moment that she was left, left the show.

00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:35.436
She skated through a dislocated shoulder like a battered ribcage.

00:28:35.436 --> 00:28:41.180
She had to have surgery on that and she skated through that pain.

00:28:41.180 --> 00:28:43.015
We were all in pain.

00:28:43.015 --> 00:28:44.961
It wasn't easy.

00:28:44.961 --> 00:29:01.480
And you come out and you smile Whereas you know, as a viewer of Dancing on Ice before the show, now watching it, I can't really love it as much as I did, yeah and because I know how painful the people who are doing it are going through.

00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:04.938
Yeah, it's yeah it's harsh it is harsh.

00:29:04.938 --> 00:29:10.694
I mean to get for the professional ice skater, to get a celebrity ready for professional ice skating.

00:29:10.694 --> 00:29:12.820
It must be so frustrating.

00:29:12.820 --> 00:29:25.272
Yeah, so they can be hard on us and like, although we're all friends, it could be tough loving yeah, I can imagine yeah, and lots of fallouts yes, well, that's it, isn't it really?

00:29:25.292 --> 00:29:25.914
it's, it's, it's it's.

00:29:25.914 --> 00:29:26.777
Do you know?

00:29:26.777 --> 00:29:30.680
It's like anything, though when you say it's kind of turned it for a little bit, it does.

00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:31.383
You can watch.

00:29:31.383 --> 00:29:40.121
So you, I call it suspending your disbelief, and then, once you kind of know the in and workings of it and how it all works and you can kind of understand the things of how it looks backstage and stuff.

00:29:40.121 --> 00:29:48.174
I've had similar experiences with things before where I've kind of it's just took the the shine off the apple a little bit and it's not as easy to enjoy as as it used to be yeah, it's the same as big brother for

00:29:48.194 --> 00:29:52.702
me because I did big brother celebrity big brother and so I know how it works um.

00:29:52.702 --> 00:30:09.155
And now, having a bean on it and watching it, I know how manipulating the edit can be that's it and what they're doing, you know, and how they edit situations so that the people who aren't getting on yeah, like we didn't have the whole, there was a secret parlor to do our makeup.

00:30:09.175 --> 00:30:15.417
They do that now yeah, like they all have their hair and makeup done, their nails, and that wasn't like we were roughing it, it wasn't like that.

00:30:15.417 --> 00:30:16.480
When I did it, it was proper.

00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:19.230
Yeah, I've got a friend I was on um.

00:30:19.230 --> 00:30:25.032
He was on a love island years ago and he recently went on as part of the all-star love island and all right, who's?

00:30:25.093 --> 00:30:39.758
that he's called adam maxted uh adam, yeah, yeah, yeah I've, um, I've been for a few years now but talking to him about his experience and we met in December and I said to him like how do you feel about going in this time round?

00:30:39.758 --> 00:30:41.675
He said, well, I've got that experience now.

00:30:41.675 --> 00:30:44.957
He said I'm not going to let do you know what you were saying then about the manipulation of it?

00:30:44.957 --> 00:30:47.855
He went I'm not going to let the producers manipulate the story.

00:30:47.894 --> 00:30:56.432
I'm going to go in self as possible.

00:30:56.432 --> 00:30:57.034
Yeah and um, I didn't watch it.

00:30:57.034 --> 00:30:59.365
Um, my wife watched it and she said it's said you can tell the age difference between him and the rest of them?

00:30:59.385 --> 00:31:21.674
yeah, because he was in there for, I'm gonna say, more genuine and authentic reasons than other people would have gone in for no, absolutely yeah, because I watched that and you could see that he was able to shut down the um, the manipulation and things like that, that probably when he went in the first time around, it was quite easy for him to yes to get caught upon because you're just in there, you're a young lad and you're just doing what the producers are telling you to do, but they're just trying to create good tv and that's the era.

00:31:21.714 --> 00:31:22.577
Like what faith.

00:31:22.577 --> 00:31:25.948
My daughter, who's 12, is growing up like what.

00:31:25.948 --> 00:31:27.090
What do you want to do?

00:31:27.090 --> 00:31:28.713
Faith, I'm going to be on love islands.

00:31:28.713 --> 00:31:32.201
Yeah, I mean she, she might have kind of gone past that stage now.

00:31:32.361 --> 00:31:33.221
But I get what you're saying.

00:31:33.241 --> 00:31:38.212
But that is what they aspire to be they aspire to be yeah, yeah, Because from that.

00:31:38.212 --> 00:31:47.028
We've had some you know amazing people come out from shows like that and Geordie Shore, like Vicky Pattinson and some people who have gone on to do you know great work.

00:31:47.028 --> 00:31:52.615
Yeah, and I'm not knocking them for that and they're the lucky ones, but it really isn't like that.

00:31:52.615 --> 00:31:56.903
You don't do a reality show and then all of a sudden you've got your rest of your life.

00:31:56.903 --> 00:31:59.417
Those people who are still here work hard.

00:31:59.479 --> 00:31:59.659
Yeah.

00:32:01.590 --> 00:32:04.619
Work really hard at development, because it's not just a golden ticket.

00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.416
Yes, and I think it's having that understanding of that.

00:32:07.416 --> 00:32:11.179
And going back to Adam, he was going in there to further his professional wrestling career.

00:32:11.259 --> 00:32:11.440
Yeah.

00:32:11.630 --> 00:32:12.711
And he knew what he was going in for.

00:32:12.711 --> 00:32:14.214
He knew that wasn't his meal ticket.

00:32:14.355 --> 00:32:14.596
Yeah.

00:32:14.615 --> 00:32:20.904
But he said there's so many people that do go in and you look at reality TV and you look at, obviously, the suicides that have come with.

00:32:21.285 --> 00:32:21.444
Love.

00:32:21.566 --> 00:32:27.894
Island and you know talking about the aftercare of being on a reality show like that, because you've said people think that is their meal ticket.

00:32:27.894 --> 00:32:34.242
They'll do the show and realistically it's only for a year and then the next series is there and you're not famous anymore.

00:32:34.242 --> 00:32:36.815
You're kind of you're kind of forgotten about, and it's all about the new cast.

00:32:37.858 --> 00:32:56.682
So that is the you know shame of shows like that yeah, it is, and I think, like you've just when you mentioned the suicide as well, like I lost a friend, sophie from Newcastle, and and a couple of other people who I knew via friends, um, that have been in the Zork places or taken their life.

00:32:56.804 --> 00:33:15.037
Um because the shows and the, the image it perceives is all of this will be the end waiting for you, and it is for a while Like they will get everything they want, they'll get paid an absolute fortune Like it wasn't like that in my day at Liberty X.

00:33:15.037 --> 00:33:16.769
We didn't get paid to turn up to clubs.

00:33:16.769 --> 00:33:21.353
We went because it was free drink and that was it it was free drink.

00:33:21.432 --> 00:33:31.529
I was there but like these guys get handed money and then it stops because the new lot are out and then that's a danger zone.

00:33:31.529 --> 00:33:43.616
There's no aftercare, there's no one looking after their needs, there's just themselves, probably pissed it all away by then, not really got anything to show for it, thinking it was going to always be there.

00:33:43.616 --> 00:33:45.194
Oh, I'll be the next Vicky Pattinson.

00:33:45.194 --> 00:33:46.799
X, y, z, and it doesn't happen.

00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:56.833
And then they get to dark places and it's unfortunately our system that's chewed them up, spat them out and that's what needs to change.

00:33:56.853 --> 00:33:57.977
And there's there's an age thing as well.

00:33:57.977 --> 00:34:02.644
Like if I, if I went in there at 32 and if I went on a show like that, I'd have that understanding.

00:34:02.644 --> 00:34:08.710
But I think when you've got people going in on shows like that that are only 18, 19, 20, so young, they're not going to understand it.

00:34:08.771 --> 00:34:18.351
They know and I think we do live in a, in a world where I think it's almost like I thought I was going to be a millionaire by the time I was 19, or something like that is the way, I still think I'm going to be now.

00:34:18.431 --> 00:34:27.512
I'm not, though, contrary to opinion the world, the way the world is presented to you, it's almost like you kind of fed this dream that you're going to be famous, you're going to be a rock star, and then there's this harsh reality.

00:34:27.512 --> 00:34:35.268
When I said, you know, I remember I think 2000 now, when I got my first job, it was like receiving a, a warm cup of piss in the face.

00:34:35.268 --> 00:34:35.570
You know where.

00:34:35.570 --> 00:34:37.536
You realize, oh, this is what life is.

00:34:37.536 --> 00:34:41.755
Yeah, I was doing a manual labor job and I absolutely hated and it was just that.

00:34:41.775 --> 00:34:45.632
That was the reality of it and I think in a way that led to my own depression at that time.

00:34:45.632 --> 00:34:59.797
And my own anxiety is because school, um, pop culture, the media had kind of almost laid out to me that that my life wasn't going to be like that yeah I don't know how or why, I don't know if it's just my own personal experience, but I just thought life was going to be different.

00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:00.742
Right, in a way.

00:35:00.742 --> 00:35:09.932
You go from school, your education, and the path is out in front of you, and then it's like you just come to the end of it and there's just fields of nothingness and it's like where do I, where do?

00:35:09.932 --> 00:35:13.336
I go now what I do now, because everything's been dictated to you for all that time.

00:35:13.717 --> 00:35:19.704
Yeah, so I mean for me I'm the other side, where I had a dream.

00:35:19.764 --> 00:35:20.063
Yeah.

00:35:20.304 --> 00:35:39.197
And I knew what my dream was, and I set out to do it, and I'm very, very lucky that I did work hard, though, Like it wasn't handed to me and I did all of those jobs that you can ever think of to you know, in the meantime, while I wasn't doing what I would love and I really thought that was it, it was the end of the road.

00:35:39.197 --> 00:35:41.117
And then pop stars came along and changed my life.

00:35:41.117 --> 00:35:42.418
How old was you when pop stars came along?

00:35:42.418 --> 00:35:43.079
20.

00:35:43.179 --> 00:35:43.318
Yeah.

00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:49.181
And that was, and the audition for it.

00:35:49.181 --> 00:35:56.786
The advertisement in the stage newspaper was 17 to 21.

00:35:56.786 --> 00:36:02.253
And I was coming up to 21 soon, so I knew that that was.

00:36:02.253 --> 00:36:06.621
I was coming to the end of my able period.

00:36:06.641 --> 00:36:08.023
It's a very short window, isn't it?

00:36:08.023 --> 00:36:08.445
Well, it was.

00:36:08.971 --> 00:36:11.054
I think the narrative definitely changed with.

00:36:11.054 --> 00:36:12.918
Youtube and all of that.

00:36:12.958 --> 00:36:13.981
People don't know themselves.

00:36:14.081 --> 00:36:17.398
Any age, any age could crack in at any time, which is great.

00:36:17.398 --> 00:36:28.619
But back then it was literally you had to be a kid and so I had been in and out of bands and solo singing and doing competitions since I was about 14.

00:36:28.619 --> 00:36:35.059

#44 - Michelle Heaton: Addiction, Balance, Celebrity Mastermind, Body Shaming, Threat Of Relapse, Sobriety Milestones & Reality Show Realities

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