#38 - Hannah: Sober Butterfly Collective, British Drinking Culture, Authentic Friendships & Healing Homes

Transcript

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This is a renewed original recording.

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Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast.

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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host.

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I was Alex here, your facility.

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Today we're joined by Hannah, a key member of the sober butterfly collective.

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Together, they're empowering individuals to connect authentically, without alcohol combat, in social isolation and fostering genuine friendships, joining us as we dive into Hannah's journey and the transformative mission of the sober butterfly collective.

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So, hannah, thank you very much for joining us here on the Believe in People podcast.

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We've invited you on because you are the head of the sober butterfly collective lived experience recovery organization and I think it's really good to create an awareness about what lived experience recovery organizations are lyrus that we do have in the community.

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So can you first of all tell me a little bit about yourself and why you're passionate about sobriety?

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So I first of all thank you for having me.

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It's a pleasure to be here.

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But, yeah, I'm passionate about it, as you've said, because of my own lived experience, and I think that's where a lot of these things come from.

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And I went through my own journey.

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I found myself going from a binge drinking social fun sort of party girl to someone who was drinking alone a lot and was using alcohol more as a coping mechanism and escape route.

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And when I decided to address that, when I left hospitality so I'd worked in hospitality for over 10 years, which is where the alcohol has become very entwined into my everyday life I left the industry and found that I had a bit of a void in my life that I needed to fill, and for me, I filled that with alcohol initially.

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And when I addressed that situation, I found that I just needed a new circle of friends, an additional circle of friends.

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No, I didn't replace my friends, and finding people that were like-minded, wanted to do the same sorts of things as me, was just an absolute game changer.

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How old was you when you first had your first drink?

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I was probably 14.

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14.

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That's quite normal in British culture.

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Yes, To be fair, to start drinking.

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I think I was around 14 when I first started drinking as well.

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It's interesting that your line of work was something that encouraged the drinking.

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What, I guess, when we look at binge drinking and you talk about that void of what you're trying to fill, have you ever reflected on that and thought what the void was that you was trying to fill with alcohol?

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Yes.

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So I didn't really reflect on it till about a year into my sobriety when I looked into sort of therapy.

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And as many people it probably stems back to childhood and I felt a lot of rejection, abandonment, and I had a lot of voices in my head when I was hanging out with friends that they didn't really want me there, that yeah, I just didn't really belong and alcohol for me kind of that's like that social anxiety I've talked about this on a podcast before but the need to fill them, social interactions and environments with alcohol to, I guess, lower those voices or to quiet them down, because there is that overthinking of are these people really my friends?

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Do they even like me?

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Am I invited here just because my other friends being invited in there?

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Do you know?

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there's all these things that can come into that.

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What I always found interesting about speaking with people like yourself is people who are in sobriety but have not experienced alcohol dependency.

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Am I right in believing that you've never experienced a dependence to alcohol and it was just the binge of it?

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Yeah, I wouldn't say that I probably got to the dependency part.

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However, I could see myself going there.

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So, as I sort of mentioned, I'd always been the binge drinker, the social like fun element through hospitality.

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But then that sort of year that followed when I left I found I was drinking a lot alone, so I'd never had evenings and weekends free because I'd always worked in hospitality.

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So I had this like this time I was feeling, and you know, rather than having a drink at 11, 12, one o'clock in the morning when I finished a shift, I was drinking as soon as I finished my day job.

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I was going home.

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So I saw myself like sat on the sofa drinking a bottle of wine, finishing that and then thinking I'll just watch Tesco's and go get another one, till pretty much I was passing out on the sofa.

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So, yeah, I could see where it was heading really, and that's what I wanted to kind of and do you know?

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props to you for seeing that, because we often when we talk about alcohol dependence, it does creep up on people and I've heard stories of people who drink gin, for instance, and because gin didn't feel especially like a nice fruity gin, not overly alcoholic in its taste I've that with, you know, some lemonade or something it was going down like juice, so I didn't feel like there was drinking.

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And then next thing they realized actually the body has created a physical dependence on that and they can't function without that.

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So, looking at you and your story, what was that rock bottom moment then?

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What was the low moment where you thought I have to stop the drinking now?

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Did you even experience a rock bottom moment, or was it a gradual?

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thing, I would say it was probably quite gradual.

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I've had some probably what other people would call rock bottom moments over the years, but just I think in our society it's often laughed off as you know something silly you've done or like, and so it kind of just got breezed over.

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But actually the catalyst for change for me was I had a really boozy summer in 2019.

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I went on a Hendo abroad.

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Don't remember a single like part of it apart from looking back on photographs.

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But there was one day when I was on that Hendo and they're all like my best friends we were having some photos taken on this balcony, all dressed up.

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I just had this sun-like I don't know anxiety, panic, caught a sort of attack, didn't want to be in any photos, went and hid in the toilets and I actually took a selfie of myself in that moment and I still have it and I just didn't recognize myself.

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I'd just got to this point where I just, I don't know, I was just on this hamster wheel and I'd kind of that was the moment I realized I was just really like deeply unhappy.

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I just where I was in life there was something that just didn't feel right, and I did carry on drinking for a couple of weeks after that, Then had the most horrific hangover I've ever.

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Probably had the same majority of my drinking days I didn't really get hangovers.

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How are the doggies?

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Probably could just continue drinking.

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Especially when you're in hospitality.

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Not a long enough period of sobriety to even understand that you're experiencing a hangover.

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Exactly, yeah, if you can't.

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I couldn't lay in bed and be nauseous and have a headache and just nurse that feeling.

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I had to get up and work.

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Especially in my last job, I was a manager of a venue which was remote, I was only 24 to 26.

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And yeah, so I was doing breakfast shifts and closing shifts.

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So, yeah, there was just that cycle.

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But yeah, I had this awful hangover and I had to go do some social things.

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The next day I had to do a brunch and I had to do a friend's birthday dinner and I couldn't eat and I just thought this is just not a way to live.

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And the next day I went and bought a notebook and decided to write down all the things I wanted to change in my life.

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So from small habits to big goals, day-to-day things, but then also big future things, and each page I wrote a different header as an area of my life and I think on the health I think it was.

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The health list was limit alcohol, which was probably about halfway down the list.

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It wasn't high up there, not a bonus priority, so yeah limit alcohol and I put sober October in brackets.

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And when I, a few days later, reviewed all of my lists, that was the one thing that stood out to me.

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That was like if I do that thing, if I limit alcohol, even for a month, and maybe see what happens, maybe I'll be able to do some of these other things.

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Like I'd never stepped foot in a yoga studio and I'd always wanted to do yoga and I was like why is that?

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And I had this anxiety of walking into a room and going doing something that was actually solitary, but I felt like I needed a friend to go with me.

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That's a social anxiety sort of situation is it where you?

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Think everybody's looking at you, everybody's judging you and yeah.

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I think the one thing when it you know, when we talk about social anxiety, is realising that nobody else actually cares about you in the way that we overthink situations.

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And.

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I was talking to this, about this, not a song or two to a friend of mine when I was in London now with someone who does get very anxious I remember coming outside of King's Cross and walking through London and considering how busy it is, you'd think, for someone like me.

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It'd make me really anxious.

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I probably felt a level of peace that I've never known, because I just looked on and thought everybody is that busy yeah, nobody's looking at me.

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Yeah, nobody gives a.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And there, was something about it that I found really comforting about that particular area of London until the next morning.

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Then I had another panic as I got excited.

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I woke up in my hotel, just like I'm having London.

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It's busy, do you know, but in that brief moment it felt really good.

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But yeah, so I completely, you know, resonate with what you're saying there and I guess, looking at those activities, what else did you, what else kind of changed them when you did find sobriety in terms of, like, what did you go and do, yoga being a great thing to start?

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with yeah, so just following on from what you've just said about that like social anxiety and being in like a space like that, so when I did decide to do it, I'd said to my friend I'm doing sober October, so for me that just meant they'd ask less questions, Like I knew I was addressing something a bit bigger than that but, I just felt that that was the perfect time.

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It happens coincide with me moving house as well.

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So I actually stopped drinking on the 27th of September, so like a few days before.

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But I said to my friends like still invite me to everything, like I'm still gonna come to all the things we've got planned in October, but I just won't drink.

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And you know, if I need to go home, I drive, I can get myself home.

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And I had an October fest event in the first month which he's like you know.

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That's the worst time to possibly think I'm gonna stop drinking, isn't it?

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When you've got that on the calendar.

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Yeah, a huge like social drinking thing.

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And you know, I got there and you were handed a sign as soon as you walked in.

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So I passed that on to a friend and went to the bar, asked what they had to drink.

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They literally had Coke or lemonade, that was it.

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So I had to get a pint of lemonade and I was just like clutching this pint of lemonade.

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And when everybody started to get up on the tables and like dance, you know, to the band, and I was sat down, I was like I look like the odd one out If I sit down and I don't join in with this.

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Like the spotlight felt, like it was on me if I was just sat down.

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So I got up on the table and I started dancing.

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There was just a sea of people all on the tables and that, like there was this light bulb moment that I thought no one cares what I'm doing.

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No one is actually looking at me, they're all in their own little bubble, trying not to fall off the tables, trying not to spill a pint, thinking about how they get down from the table to go get the other one, and I think that that really helped, like personally for me, which is how sort of sober butterfly came about, because I used to be this social butterfly and then I kind of had gone into like throwing myself into still the same situations, but sober.

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I've just caught on.

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I always loved the term social butterfly.

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I say it about my daughter when she just goes she's only two, but when she's gonna mingle in with me, I was like I've just got probably a little social butterfly.

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She don't want the social life there.

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But yeah, I've done, just clicked on the social butterfly, the sober butterfly.

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That's nice, though that's really good.

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I've just thought about you going into the October festival.

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You kind of I've just imagined being behind the bar and someone coming up on our October festival asking for a non-alcoholic drink.

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It'd be like a vegan going into like a barbecue or steak house and saying what are you vegan options?

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I know I mean they had Jager and they didn't even have Red Bull.

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I've had a Red Bull otherwise, but yeah, no.

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But yeah, so like that first month in the October.

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But I just I threw myself into like trying different things, like I went to a yoga class and I went alone.

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I can't think of all the things that I did, but I just kept myself busy.

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And then, when I knew that I wanted it to be a bit more of a longer thing, I kind of looked for how do I sustain this, this a little bit longer?

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And that's when I'd come across Millie Gooch, who had started the Serb Girl Society.

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But she was pretty much based down in London so she was doing these like she's about a year older than me, so she'd become like a bit of an inspiration for me, that proving like it can be done.

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You can be in your 20s and you can stop drinking and you can still have fun.

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And she had organised like a one-off brunch up in Manchester.

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So I thought, right, that was like middle of November and I booked to go to that so that I had that like little bit extra like motivation.

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And it was actually my best friend's house party the night before and I thought that is going to be an intense situation, like in a house with loads of people that are drinking.

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I remember this guy saying to me he was sat at the kitchen table, saying like, oh, you know, I've heard that you've stopped drinking.

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Like how come, why?

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And I said well, you see those two bottles of Noseco that are empty on the table and I've been here like an hour, that's why and he went oh okay, because I would have drank that cool clay if it was out there.

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Yeah, so all the Pasecollas down here interesting, but having the next morning something to go to like a reason to get up and I was going to meet some people that you know were like-minded and wanted to change the relationship with alcohol, you know what.

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Millie does is for sober and for sober.

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Curious people just really kept me going through that house party when everyone was getting more and more drunk I was like, took myself to bed.

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I'm just going to touch on that same sober, curious because it's one that obviously we've had Millie on this podcast before you know, I don't know, quite a while ago I suppose, but for newer listeners, tell me a little bit more about what sober curious, just just means.

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Yeah, so I think that's what I would have called myself at the time when I went.

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So I, you know, was interested in what life was like without alcohol.

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It wasn't for me at that.

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When I first stopped, I wrote down.

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I actually downloaded um, the I am sober app to kind of track my days and I wrote down why I wanted to sort of do that, and it was to improve my mental health, save some money, which I haven't, you know, really done in reality.

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But yeah, so it was just I had this kind of like curiosity of like what life could be like if I removed alcohol.

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Or you know, I changed that relationship and I think I had this idea that I could be a moderate you know moderate drinker, um in the early days, and but I knew I had to cut it out completely to get to that.

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And then actually, in reality, when I went to that event and met other like minded people, um I realized, you know, it needed to be more of a long-term lifestyle, and I think that's what a lot of people who who do become sober, curious and kind of go down that like rabbit hole and like are looking into like well, what would life be like if, if I didn't drink every Friday and Saturday, or you know, reduced?

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you know how much I was drinking, um, and I think, through setting up what I have with sober butterfly.

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You know we have no like rules or judgment on on what people do outside of the meetups.

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We just ask them to not come hungover and just respectfully do that, and I think a lot of people have come and joined and ended up in long-term sobriety because they've just been allowed to be curious and and talk to people and hear lived experience and hear that they're not alone, and I think that's really powerful um.

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I've.

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I found that for myself.

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I'm not, I'm not sober myself, but I do find that I don't drink, or if I do drink, it's often non-alcoholic drinks.

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What I found as the struggle for me is labels.

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If I tell myself, right, it's, it's so.

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I like having meat three days.

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I like having periods of time when I when I don't drink, but if I give myself a label, it's like dry January.

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I always I guarantee.

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I don't think I drank anything this January.

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Yeah, but if I said at the beginning of January, right, I'm doing dry January, that would put the seed in my head that I'd want to have a, an alcoholic drink more than than I actually wanted to.

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In fact, I did it no problems.

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But if I'd given myself that challenge on that label, I guess that's the thing that I always struggle with.

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Is that label, if I guess, commitment committing to something and ruling it out my life completely, um, how did you find that process to go from, you know, I guess, drinking as often as you did to really putting that definitive stamp on it?

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You know, yes, you said you had that curious period there and there was a couple of couple of weeks after the September date.

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You know that you carried on drinking.

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But how did you find that point of saying, right, I'm not drinking anymore?

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yeah, I think you know that, like you said, that commitment and that restriction can often like consume people's minds, and I have kind of known from other people around me over the years that have put those restrictions on themselves that it does consume your mind.

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Um so, although I'll yes, I was saying so a rock tour, but I remember it was allowing me to kind of you know, brush it off like that.

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Um, I I just needed that clear cut, that's just.

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I'm not having it because I knew that if I'd allowed myself there, oh, you could just have what I would get there.

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You know, you can just have one and and I would just fall back into the pattern and I think now that I mean I'm over four years sober now I have an addictive personality like it wasn't just alcohol.

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Like I find it very hard to moderate a lot of things, so you know was that?

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was there a replacement?

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Because one of the things that I hear from people with dependency when they do tend to sobriety, sugar is the thing.

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So chocolate and sweets and the other indulgence on food, I think for people with that addictive personality.

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That's the interesting thing about addiction.

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It isn't always the substance, it's the um release of dopamine from what the addiction makes us feel so.

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People have alcohol addictions, drug addictions, sex addictions, game addictions, food addictions, gambling addictions.

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It isn't the addiction that's always the problem, or the substance or the activity that's always the problem.

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It's what they are escaping from yeah, it's what that?

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I guess it's what that activity or substance is making them feel and making them escape from.

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Did you find that you had no replacement, that you suddenly took more of an interest in something else?

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um, yeah, I think I definitely did have the sugar initially.

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Um, I mean, I've always had a bit of a sweet tooth, but definitely that did spike in those sort of like early days I also had to.

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I've replaced, like going home and opening a bottle of wine with trying alcohol-free drinks.

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So I mean it's nothing like what the market is now like.

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Back in 2019 it was much more limited, but I was having like no seco.

00:21:25.723 --> 00:21:38.261
I was trying, like the various things that were out there, so, um, but I think ultimately, what I threw myself in was just keeping busy yeah and it wasn't long after.

00:21:38.422 --> 00:21:55.515
So I went to Millie's event that I then started organizing meetups myself in the north, so that's what I threw myself into, probably um, I'm still very much into doing that, to be honest, but it's a much healthier way of spending my time.

00:21:55.674 --> 00:22:04.060
This is what I often say to people when people talk about cross addiction and oh, you've replaced one substance for something else, or do?

00:22:04.060 --> 00:22:06.928
You know, and maybe another substance or another activity.

00:22:06.928 --> 00:22:24.037
It's the way in the pros and cons that, especially for people with opioid addiction, it's like, yes, you're playing your xbox seven, eight hours a day now, but I'd rather you be doing that than taking heroin, you know so when people do replace things, there is often healthy things to be replacing it with.

00:22:24.057 --> 00:22:24.638
Don't get me wrong.

00:22:24.638 --> 00:22:47.586
It's never healthy to be spending that amount of time or or obsessing over different things or even replacing things, and you know, whatever that may be substances or activities but there is always a better alternative to what you're doing and I think, throwing yourself into a community and creating a community and, you know, really going for it with the silver butterfly, what would you what?

00:22:47.586 --> 00:22:48.790
What's the better alternative?

00:22:48.951 --> 00:22:49.413
of the two do you?

00:22:49.433 --> 00:22:50.157
know what I mean.

00:22:50.157 --> 00:22:54.339
You might be in there quite deep and you might be doing quite a lot, but it's a much healthier thing to be doing.

00:22:54.800 --> 00:23:00.827
I'm just going to go back and when you talked about your I guess your relationship with friends, you talked about making new friends.

00:23:00.827 --> 00:23:04.781
I know you said you haven't replaced your old friends, but what was that like for them?

00:23:04.781 --> 00:23:06.566
And how did you find that?

00:23:06.566 --> 00:23:13.421
Because I found, when you in your, for now, if I went to a party with some friends and I said I want drinking, I don't think anyone had bat an eye.

00:23:13.421 --> 00:23:19.087
But when I was in my 20s and I went to a party and I said I want drinking, it was like, oh, don't be boring, don't you know that?

00:23:19.087 --> 00:23:20.335
And then you'd have this pressure.

00:23:20.335 --> 00:23:24.903
I think with age you get that less.

00:23:25.244 --> 00:23:27.169
I think people kind of understand a little bit more.

00:23:27.169 --> 00:23:30.847
But what was that like for your friends and what was that like for you?

00:23:30.847 --> 00:23:31.934
Because you was worried.

00:23:31.934 --> 00:23:33.584
Obviously you said still invite me to things.

00:23:33.624 --> 00:23:36.016
They're still there's still that concern, isn't they?

00:23:36.016 --> 00:23:36.878
Yeah, I mean.

00:23:36.878 --> 00:24:12.250
So I was 27 and so, like I, because I'd been in hospitality so long, I mean, I'd gone to uni, I'd gone traveling, I carried on working in hospitality, I'd kind of stayed in this like bubble of that fun social life, whereas my so a bit of a time warp really, whereas my friends had, you know, been building their careers, they've been building families, like so when I came out of hospitality, that was probably part of the void really, that actually they had busy lives in other senses and they, you know, were busy doing other things.

00:24:12.250 --> 00:24:18.906
So whenever we did get together, it was just based primarily because it was someone's best day or it was some sort of celebration.

00:24:18.906 --> 00:24:42.750
So I think, like when we did go out, they were fine, they probably I haven't really talked to them- about this, but I would imagine they probably thought like oh, thank god, because I I didn't know when to go home because I didn't have anyone to go home too so.

00:24:42.810 --> 00:24:46.480
I was always that person that would stay out till 6 in the morning.

00:24:47.103 --> 00:24:53.819
But I think in some circumstances I definitely felt like I was like holding a mirror up to people.

00:24:53.819 --> 00:25:04.388
So I think they felt like they were really conscious then of their consumption of alcohol around me and were like apologizing for drinking around me.

00:25:04.388 --> 00:25:14.174
And yeah, I think I mean to be honest, they've just been so supportive, like throughout the whole thing.

00:25:14.174 --> 00:25:29.424
I've never really felt any pressure from my friends and I have had the conversation with them about how I did feel in certain circumstances and where my mind was consumed by like you know, you didn't want me here, like why am I here?

00:25:29.464 --> 00:26:02.239
we've just been friends since school, since college, and you just don't know how to shake me like and and actually they said but you're the glow, you're the one who holds us all together, like we're all doing our own things but you're able to to bring us all back and yeah, that's, that's been a really sort of nice, nice thing to experience so tell me a little bit more about the sober butterfly collective and why I guess you said you threw yourself into it.

00:26:04.184 --> 00:26:05.809
A community has to start from somewhere.

00:26:05.809 --> 00:26:06.794
How did it start?

00:26:06.794 --> 00:26:07.013
How?

00:26:07.013 --> 00:26:14.064
I mean, what was it like when the first person walked through the door, or first person contacts here, and because I've seen the pictures, it's a big thing yeah.

00:26:14.384 --> 00:26:22.086
So it actually started pretty much straight after the sober girls society brunch that I went to.

00:26:22.086 --> 00:26:24.132
So Millie does this post.

00:26:24.132 --> 00:26:33.099
That is like he says find your sober sisters and you can comment in like the comment thread like where you live and other people can say if they live near you.

00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:42.137
So I posted literally the next day and just said I live in Halifax, near Leeds, like if anybody's interested in like meeting up, I'm happy to organise something.

00:26:42.137 --> 00:26:47.416
And my phone just blew up because at that time there was nothing in the north.

00:26:47.416 --> 00:26:53.115
So it was kind of well, I think there was a couple of things, but nothing that people really knew of.

00:26:53.115 --> 00:27:03.279
So, yeah, I just started a group chat on Instagram that hit 32 people, which was the max you can have on an Instagram chat.

00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:08.605
So then I set up another one and then I was that hit maximum and I was like I've got 64 people here.

00:27:08.605 --> 00:27:10.491
I want these people to talk to these people.

00:27:10.491 --> 00:27:14.561
So we set up a WhatsApp group, which, with that many people, is a bit chaotic.

00:27:14.622 --> 00:27:16.486
I can imagine.

00:27:16.645 --> 00:27:19.681
So this was sort of like yeah, the November 2019.

00:27:19.681 --> 00:27:23.432
But when I put out like, does anybody want to meet for a coffee?

00:27:23.432 --> 00:27:24.936
Like let's just start with a coffee.

00:27:24.936 --> 00:27:27.663
So we organised a date in the December.

00:27:27.663 --> 00:27:54.176
14 people said they were coming and one person turned up okay everybody, kind of like you know, the night before or on the morning said various reasons that they couldn't come, and the only person that came was actually the lady that I was sat across from at the brunch in Manchester okay but it meant because she actually said to me like, oh, don't worry, if everybody's cancelled, like we can, just we've already met, it's fine.

00:27:54.196 --> 00:27:56.144
I said no, I'm not like that like.

00:27:56.144 --> 00:27:56.926
I'm committed.

00:27:56.926 --> 00:27:59.375
If I've made a plan, I'm going ahead with it.

00:27:59.375 --> 00:28:15.724
And so we we met for a coffee and she still now is like one of my closest friends, like I've been on holiday with her, like you know, it's over four years now, and so that was, yeah, the December 2019, january, I organised a brunch and six people came.

00:28:16.366 --> 00:28:21.440
Then in February, we didn't do anything, but then, the March, we went to a yoga class.

00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:22.643
Now this is 2020.

00:28:22.643 --> 00:28:25.634
We had loads of plans going.

00:28:25.634 --> 00:28:29.348
We had a plan in April we had a plan in May and everything just got scuppered.

00:28:30.244 --> 00:28:35.237
So then during lockdown we found that the WhatsApp group just kept growing.

00:28:35.237 --> 00:28:42.018
So by the August I said like this needs to be something like official.

00:28:42.018 --> 00:28:52.375
So, as any millennial does, started an Instagram page, gave it the name Serbabotify Collective, because I'd kind of coined this Serbabotify name.

00:28:52.375 --> 00:28:55.054
I always knew it was never about me and my journey.

00:28:55.054 --> 00:28:59.243
It was always going to be about the other people and like helping them find friends.

00:28:59.243 --> 00:29:07.219
Because I'd found three very good friends, like within weeks of me kind of looking for friendship in sobriety.

00:29:07.219 --> 00:29:18.347
And I said I just said to them I actually said if everybody has what we have, just as far as us, if everybody had that, you know, maybe they'd get that little bit further with their journeys.

00:29:18.347 --> 00:29:27.853
Because I didn't know a single person in my immediate life that didn't drink, and especially not out of choice or you know.

00:29:27.853 --> 00:29:32.682
So, yeah, that started.

00:29:32.682 --> 00:29:34.313
Obviously we weren't able to.

00:29:34.313 --> 00:29:38.797
We had got a plan to meet up because it was an Eat Out to Help Out period and we were like we were going to.

00:29:38.817 --> 00:29:42.893
We had this event planned outside and that got cancelled in the end.

00:29:42.893 --> 00:29:47.236
So just because we made that Instagram page, it just started growing.

00:29:47.236 --> 00:29:50.314
People were finding us because I guess they were searching Serban.

00:29:50.314 --> 00:30:00.230
I think a lot of people's relationship throughout lockdown changed because that initial period people's relationship with alcohol changed because they were no longer able to go and just social drink.

00:30:00.230 --> 00:30:05.635
So it was brought into their homes and that boundary was kind of crossed and they found themselves drinking.

00:30:05.635 --> 00:30:06.257
Do you know what?

00:30:06.257 --> 00:30:06.478
I got.

00:30:06.884 --> 00:30:10.207
I'm sure I've said this before, but I can agree that completely, I'd find I'd be.

00:30:10.207 --> 00:30:12.090
I'm not, do you know?

00:30:12.090 --> 00:30:20.685
Again, I'm not a big drinker, but in 2020, I'd walk the dogs and somehow my dog walking in and me coming home with a bottle of wine and we'd be watching.

00:30:20.685 --> 00:30:28.832
We'd be binge watching Lufa with a, with a chair and a bottle of wine at home and because I wasn't having to go to work the next day.

00:30:28.832 --> 00:30:29.614
But I was working.

00:30:29.614 --> 00:30:30.635
I was working from home.

00:30:30.736 --> 00:30:31.758
There was no commute.

00:30:32.567 --> 00:30:34.311
I just found my drinking was.

00:30:34.311 --> 00:30:36.818
I think, honestly, I think 2020 was probably my.

00:30:36.818 --> 00:30:41.933
I think it was probably my the most drinking I'd done.

00:30:41.933 --> 00:30:46.319
I was never getting fully drunk like not like nights out when I was 21.

00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.804
But the volume of drink, of the daily drink, the amount of days you were drinking.

00:30:50.865 --> 00:30:53.973
Yeah when we're talking about dependency, dependency slowly creeping up on you.

00:30:53.973 --> 00:30:57.193
That could have been a period where I understand how it does happen.

00:30:57.193 --> 00:31:00.114
Some people think you know how does dependency just creep up on you?

00:31:00.114 --> 00:31:08.051
If I'd continued like that, it probably could have been the case for me, because it was just every night bottle of wine every night.

00:31:08.051 --> 00:31:09.076
You know it's crazy.

00:31:09.306 --> 00:31:11.133
Yeah, and I think that's what a lot of people found.

00:31:11.133 --> 00:31:13.432
So that's how really sub above like grew.

00:31:13.432 --> 00:31:25.035
So we kind of got lots more followers and I was trying to then find because it didn't really we just had no idea at that point we were in and out of lockdowns, Like I was trying to find ways to like engage people online.

00:31:25.035 --> 00:31:35.637
So we were doing online socials, we were doing online yoga classes, we were doing I did some like mindful, like doodling artwork thing that somebody hosted.

00:31:35.637 --> 00:31:39.875
Yeah, we did just did lots of like online things.

00:31:39.875 --> 00:31:43.492
So we built this online community that didn't matter where you lived in the country.

00:31:43.492 --> 00:32:08.678
So then when we came like out of lockdown, the first meetup that we did, which was in Harrogate, we had people literally travel from Essex, Birmingham, Newcastle, Manchester, Lancashire, Yorkshire, like, and it blew my mind and I was like, oh, I don't really start this to find myself some friends around Leeds.

00:32:09.325 --> 00:32:18.238
This has become a lot bigger, and I then tried to find a way that meant that people weren't always having to travel to Yorkshire.

00:32:18.238 --> 00:32:23.056
There was only a limit to my time and my availability and being able to host events.

00:32:23.056 --> 00:32:27.756
So that's when I started the curious coffee catch-ups.

00:32:27.924 --> 00:32:30.853
So we started that in the October 2021.

00:32:30.853 --> 00:32:41.051
So some of the like closer friends I'd made in some of the other cities, like Manchester, Lancashire, Birmingham.

00:32:41.051 --> 00:32:47.573
I just said to them right, I've had this idea, let's do a coffee morning because it just feels quite an accessible thing.

00:32:47.573 --> 00:32:48.655
People don't have to drink coffee.

00:32:48.655 --> 00:32:53.425
They can drink what they like, they can eat what they like, but everybody will eat or drink something it's.

00:32:53.425 --> 00:33:02.838
You know, there's no, there's not that barrier in terms of it's a specific activity and they're not going to want to do yoga or they're not going to want to go paddle boarding or Everybody needs to drink, don't they?

00:33:02.858 --> 00:33:03.942
And everybody needs to eat.

00:33:03.961 --> 00:33:15.575
So yeah, and they can do that within their own means as well, there's no pressure of having to spend a certain amount of money, Like it's not a ticketed event, it's not like you know they've got to pay £10.

00:33:15.575 --> 00:33:17.711
You just turn, you know you turn up.

00:33:17.711 --> 00:33:23.837
So the concept of it is it's on the same day at the same time, but in different locations.

00:33:23.837 --> 00:33:31.568
So even if there's only two people meeting in Scarborough, so we've got a group in Scarborough and there's 20 people meeting in Leeds.

00:33:31.568 --> 00:33:35.076
When we like, share the photographs of it, like on social media.

00:33:35.115 --> 00:33:36.499
It becomes a bigger thing, doesn't it?

00:33:36.499 --> 00:33:38.171
It feels part of something much bigger.

00:33:39.484 --> 00:33:46.289
So, yeah, we do that on the second Saturday of the month and that's kind of really how we've grown and I mean we are voluntary led.

00:33:46.289 --> 00:33:48.329
That is something I'm really passionate about.

00:33:48.329 --> 00:34:12.626
So they do fluctuate because it depends on volunteers and but we grew very fast and then we kind of like teated out for a little while but we're growing again now and but it's like off the back of that particular meetup that actually all the friendships have blossomed.

00:34:12.626 --> 00:34:17.387
So they've got that like anchored, consistent meetup that they all know that they can go to.

00:34:17.387 --> 00:34:22.153
But then I get the community involved in organizing other things.

00:34:22.153 --> 00:34:30.135
So we have ah God, the amount of things that we've tried over the years, like roller blade and paddle boarding, people go to the theater.

00:34:30.135 --> 00:34:35.840
We've got book clubs, just anything that like anyone in the community fancies doing or trying.

00:34:36.061 --> 00:34:44.353
They have the opportunity to put that forward to the community and you know, nine times out of 10, there's going to be someone else who's like yeah, I'll do that with you.

00:34:45.025 --> 00:34:46.711
I wish someone had suggested rollerblading to me.

00:34:46.711 --> 00:34:48.697
I've not done that since I was like 16.

00:34:48.697 --> 00:34:49.764
It was through my favorite thing.

00:34:49.764 --> 00:34:53.416
If someone came to me now and said let's go rollerblading, I'd be so excited.

00:34:53.416 --> 00:34:54.711
I'd absolutely love that.

00:34:54.885 --> 00:34:55.567
We went to um.

00:34:55.567 --> 00:34:58.894
There's a place in Manchester that's adult only in the city centre.

00:34:58.914 --> 00:35:00.057
What like a rollerblading place?

00:35:00.057 --> 00:35:02.222
Rollerblading place for adults only, Anything like that here.

00:35:02.222 --> 00:35:03.246
That'd have been amazing, yeah.

00:35:03.246 --> 00:35:08.304
Paradise Skate World, I think it's called Next time we're in Manchester, what we're doing.

00:35:10.228 --> 00:35:12.472
Um so, so yeah, it's just.

00:35:12.472 --> 00:35:17.992
It's just kind of going from that really, and my sort of ethos is if friendship is free.

00:35:17.992 --> 00:35:26.422
So you know, we've been going over three years now and we've never like taken a penny.

00:35:26.422 --> 00:35:27.605
You know we'd have a bank of 10.

00:35:27.704 --> 00:35:30.891
I was going to ask, I was going to ask about that, like, how is it sort of funded?

00:35:30.891 --> 00:35:31.746
I guess Is it.

00:35:31.746 --> 00:35:38.356
Did you say friendship is free and that's great, but I mean, are you having to rent the spaces out that you're using?

00:35:38.356 --> 00:35:39.409
Do you know, is it?

00:35:39.409 --> 00:35:50.795
I mean, even like most fellowship meetings, your AAs and NAs have like a contribution part just to pay for, sometimes, the basics, or a contribution to the venue if it's held in churches or community centres and things like that.

00:35:50.795 --> 00:35:51.186
Do you know how?

00:35:51.186 --> 00:35:53.454
How are you, I guess, putting these meetups on?

00:35:54.025 --> 00:35:58.356
So the coffee catch ups, we um base them in independent coffee shops.

00:35:58.356 --> 00:36:04.889
So, given you know, from being in hospitality, I really wanted to help hospitality, especially off the back of lockdown.

00:36:04.889 --> 00:36:07.952
So I wanted to help as much as we can.

00:36:07.952 --> 00:36:09.777
Just independent coffee shops.

00:36:09.777 --> 00:36:11.851
Now Some of them obviously have grown huge.

00:36:11.851 --> 00:36:17.876
The leads one regularly now gets over 25 people, and we've even in West York, should we displace it?

00:36:17.876 --> 00:36:27.315
So there's a coffee morning in Halifax, Huddersfield, bradford, leads and we're just about to start Wakefields now to see if it kind of takes some of the leads people over to Wakefield.

00:36:28.246 --> 00:36:39.851
Um, but yeah, generally we just try to find venues that we can support, that you know understand what we're doing, that the numbers can fluctuate because social anxiety and people might not come on the day.

00:36:40.706 --> 00:36:50.675
That's the interesting thing, because if I was to think about some of the people that I know and guests I've had on this podcast and people that I've spoken to about social anxiety, they'd probably love to do something like this.

00:36:50.675 --> 00:36:57.284
But this is the sort of thing that people would need a drink in them to go and do, which is the paradox.

00:36:57.284 --> 00:37:05.034
But I suppose I guess really hammering that point is look, there'd be plenty of people who probably would feel the same way.

00:37:05.505 --> 00:37:06.889
And I guess the timing of it as well.

00:37:06.889 --> 00:37:11.293
If these, if these things are held in the afternoon, I find social anxiety and the drinking.

00:37:11.293 --> 00:37:15.880
If you go into an event on a night, it makes sense to have you know and the social anxiety in the glass of one.

00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:27.949
But if you say oh we're meeting at 12 o'clock do you know, even even you, you know your social drinkers and you, you know wouldn't, necessarily have one at that time in the morning to go to an event at 12 o'clock in the morning, would they Well?

00:37:28.050 --> 00:37:29.192
that's why we choose it at 10.

00:37:29.211 --> 00:37:29.632
It's at 10.

00:37:29.632 --> 00:37:30.554
So it's at 10 to 12.

00:37:30.554 --> 00:37:31.496
Oh well, even better than yeah.

00:37:31.496 --> 00:37:31.657
Yeah.

00:37:32.085 --> 00:37:38.358
It's not really a time you'd necessarily, you know, and it's on a Saturday morning.

00:37:38.358 --> 00:37:45.025
So, and we've kept it always like that and we do other things for, like on a Sunday, because we know people work on Saturdays.

00:37:45.025 --> 00:38:04.452
But we do like walks on a Sunday and but in terms of like the the social anxiety side of it, like I knew that people would feel like they really want to go to it but like, yeah, on the night it might the social anxiety might take over, or even in the morning, and that that's okay.

00:38:04.452 --> 00:38:07.217
If they cancel, like that, it's not like.

00:38:07.764 --> 00:38:08.789
Is that why it's not ticketed?

00:38:08.789 --> 00:38:09.552
I suppose as well.

00:38:09.552 --> 00:38:12.391
I guess, if people do change the mind, there's not lost, there is there.

00:38:12.431 --> 00:38:14.436
Yeah, and that's why we'll always keep it for you.

00:38:14.436 --> 00:38:24.373
We were at the moment looking at trialling it on Eventbrite so that there's you can get a ticket, because it's more so that we can reach more people, just so you can have an idea of how many numbers as well.

00:38:24.505 --> 00:38:28.440
Yeah, it's more, so we can reach more people, because you know Eventbrite is, is it's?

00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:29.003
Huge.

00:38:30.206 --> 00:38:37.692
So, and you can host like free events on there and just so that more people can find us, but you can still cancel, it's still free.

00:38:37.692 --> 00:38:38.847
It's just that.

00:38:38.847 --> 00:38:51.731
So the other people that haven't found us on Instagram, for example, but we also have, so we still have the WhatsApp groups and that's always been like a key part of what we do.

00:38:51.731 --> 00:39:05.753
So people get to join the WhatsApp groups so they can be part of the WhatsApp groups for a while before they might even step through the job, but they're able to communicate with people in a way and like know that we're all friendly, know that we're all like-minded.

00:39:07.068 --> 00:39:14.333
Do you have people who've had alcohol dependence and are in recovery and sobriety attend these events as well and share these stories and stuff?

00:39:14.353 --> 00:39:25.715
Yeah, and I think that that is actually what's one of the most powerful things that when we sit around these tables like there's no agenda, so, you know, the coffee catch ups are just very casual.

00:39:25.715 --> 00:39:40.257
There's no structure to it in the sense of you know what's got to be talked about, but the people around it, they're such varied stories that it is.

00:39:40.757 --> 00:39:50.967
that's just, I think, what is quite magical about it that you know, there might be somebody that is in recovery, there might be somebody there that's trying to, just you know, reduce their drinking during the week.

00:39:50.967 --> 00:39:59.375
But everybody is on the same page Paid on the same level and I mean it blows my mind actually with the jobs that some of these people do.

00:39:59.375 --> 00:40:07.679
We've got CFOs and like judges and like I mean we don't often talk about what people do in their jobs.

00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.771
I've known people for years and don't know what they do yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:10.811 --> 00:40:11.693
So what do you do again?

00:40:11.693 --> 00:40:12.614
It's like you're a lawyer.

00:40:12.614 --> 00:40:13.436
Why are you soliciting?

00:40:14.545 --> 00:40:22.054
Yeah, I mean I've just put recently out a volunteer form to get some more volunteers to help and just said like if you've got any skills and experience you can help.

00:40:22.054 --> 00:40:25.855
It's amazing what people like can do and can help.

00:40:25.855 --> 00:40:29.083
And I mean I try to try things as quick as I can leave them alone without the fight.

00:40:29.083 --> 00:40:34.376
Yeah, so I've gone as long as I probably can now with no money.

00:40:34.396 --> 00:40:50.532
Yeah, because I do want to grow this now and obviously I never set out with the intention to make it what it is, but I've now seen the scope and how we could scale it and how many more people we can help just find some friends.

00:40:50.532 --> 00:40:56.054
So yeah, I'm currently looking into making it into a community interest company.

00:40:56.054 --> 00:41:00.574
I don't ever want to have a membership.

00:41:01.085 --> 00:41:09.914
No, but I guess if you make it into a community interest company or if you're trying to go down that route, you can apply for things like funding and things like that for these activities.

00:41:10.076 --> 00:41:10.356
Yeah.

00:41:11.304 --> 00:41:13.284
Obviously, I imagine at the moment you won't be able to as such.

00:41:13.344 --> 00:41:23.818
Yeah, and I've had a lot of the members say like, but we would pay a membership and I'm like, but I don't want that barrier for people who can't afford like a 15 pound a month membership.

00:41:23.818 --> 00:41:25.769
Yeah, why would we need to put that in place?

00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:29.099
Because actually the community run it a lot.

00:41:29.099 --> 00:41:30.969
There is obviously a lot behind the scenes.

00:41:30.969 --> 00:41:31.731
I'm going to do.

00:41:31.731 --> 00:41:43.076
So we actually started like a donation page not long ago on this site called Coffey, which is a place I've been a coffee and you can donate, like the price of a coffee.

00:41:43.264 --> 00:41:45.773
You could donate a price of a round of coffees.

00:41:45.773 --> 00:41:52.398
You could choose to donate a coffee a month, like, but we give that as a choice.

00:41:52.925 --> 00:41:57.726
Like if somebody is in a position that they want to do that and to say like you've really helped.

00:41:57.726 --> 00:42:00.192

#38 - Hannah: Sober Butterfly Collective, British Drinking Culture, Authentic Friendships & Healing Homes

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